American Psycho (2000)

Matt (00:00:21):

When Load Bearing Beams first came onto the podcast scene, their product was a little messy, unstructured. But by episode 52, when they covered the movie Richie Rich, they really started to find their voice creatively. And their 2023 episode about Grease Two brought a new level of professionalism to the podcast in terms of production. I’m Matt Stokes, and my cohost is Laci Roth. But there is no Laci Roth. No. There is only an idea of Laci Roth, an abstraction, an entity, something illusory. And though you can shake her hand and feel flesh gripping yours, she’s simply not there. Hello, Laci.

Laci (00:00:57):

Don’t just look at my ass. Eat it.

Matt (00:00:59):

Oh, thank you. I did a

Laci (00:01:02):

Bit.

Matt (00:01:03):

Or as they say in the foreign cut asshole in the United States. Cut that word hole is bleeped or muted.

Laci (00:01:11):

Appreciate the special

Matt (00:01:13):

Sauce. That’s why you come to this for all kinds of info like that. But yeah, this is Load Bearing beams. I’m Matt Stokes.

Laci (00:01:17):

I’m Laci Roth. We’re married.

Matt (00:01:18):

We’re married. We have this podcast and we’re covering the film American Psycho, which I keep accidentally calling American History. You’re fucking doing it to

Craig (00:01:27):

Me. I do want to talk about movies that start with American. I have feelings about that.

Matt (00:01:33):

Yeah, it’s like it’s saying American Sniper, this is how you know this is the American Psycho

Laci (00:01:37):

American pie.

Matt (00:01:38):

The definitive one. Yeah, there’s something there. There’s

Laci (00:01:42):

Something about America

Matt (00:01:43):

Now. I think that that mysterious voice who talked had a little bit to say about the other little mysterious voice who talked. So let’s see.

Laci (00:01:53):

Are the bits still going? Are you a two bit?

Matt (00:01:57):

I’ve been a big fan of Red Rose Film Club since they released their first podcast in 2022 about Bong June host film parasite. But I think you should pay special attention to their miniseries covering the filmmaker s Craig. It was here that I first learned what everybody means when they say the phrase bone tomahawk. By bringing their patented blend of historical context and cinema smarts, Alan Craig are able to create a truly unique sonic experience in the audio podcasting space.

Laci (00:02:26):

Alright, that was good, Matt.

Matt (00:02:27):

So

Laci (00:02:29):

Your voice.

Matt (00:02:30):

Hal and Craig from the Red Rose Film Club are our guests. Welcome people.

Craig (00:02:35):

Hello. Hello.

Matt (00:02:36):

Hi guys. Thanks for being here.

Craig (00:02:38):

I’m so sorry that I talked through your entire opening.

Laci (00:02:41):

No, no. You,

Craig (00:02:42):

I’m so dumb.

Laci (00:02:43):

You’re the me and you’re the me. And how’s the Matt? And it’s fine.

Craig (00:02:47):

I just got excited and I wanted to start running my mouth.

Laci (00:02:51):

A DHD is real man.

Matt (00:02:53):

Tell everybody Yeah. So we have Craig and Hal from the Red Rose Film Club podcast. Can you tell everybody who isn’t aware of who you guys are, what your podcast is all about?

Hal (00:03:04):

Yeah. So Red Rose Film Club is a phone. It’s not a phone, it’s a phone. It’s a podcast about, about leftist politics and film. So that takes a couple of different forms. We sometimes inspect films that are coming from a leftist perspective, like with Parasite. Sometimes we cover conservative films like the S Craig Zoller series. And then I think more recently we’ve been doing some deep historical dives. So last summer, the series of episodes I’m most proud of are our three-part series on Italian fascism. So yeah, I’d like to think we take a blend of humor, historical context, a sociological perspective, a social movement perspective, usually coming more from a socialist angle or lens than a liberal lens and blend that all together. And really, we started doing this, so we stopped talking to all of our other friends about film so much. It’s worked. It’s worked a little.

Matt (00:04:11):

I found that my podcast does the same for me. I can just say things here to not say them to my friends anymore.

Craig (00:04:18):

Nice. Podcasting has made us all more isolated in ourselves,

Matt (00:04:24):

Right? Right, exactly.

Craig (00:04:26):

I’ll give a very great description of our podcast. And then I also make us watch really bad right wing movies like the Daily Wire Universe film.

Laci (00:04:36):

Yes. Then they appreciate,

Craig (00:04:38):

Which are great. Although I didn’t make you watch Lady Ballers, I had a little bit of sympathy.

Matt (00:04:43):

Oh, well you must be very upset that I think they’re shutting down their children’s production studio.

Laci (00:04:48):

They’re like

Hal (00:04:48):

Bankrupt and shit. Yeah,

Craig (00:04:49):

Yeah. It is a sinking ship over there.

Hal (00:04:53):

I will say. Did you see that there’s a Mormon film studio putting out an animated film his life where Oscar Isaac voices? Jesus.

Matt (00:05:04):

What I just found that I found out about that 20 minutes ago.

Hal (00:05:07):

Yeah. I think they only just released information about it yesterday. That is crazy. Something that we may have to feel a series coming on. Thoughts.

Matt (00:05:18):

I think you might have to, I really love the leftist perspective that you guys bring. It’s something I, I’m honestly trying to bring more and more to our movie podcast even if people don’t necessarily want it. And I like that you do both socialist movies and right-wing movies. I think that recently you’ve been doing Spanish Civil War and Spanish like Franco era movies including a movie, and I had no idea about this, a movie written by Francisco Franco himself. How would you evaluate him as a screenwriter? Is he a William Goldman esque Hollywood scribe?

Hal (00:05:53):

No, the director was bringing a lot more to the table than Frank was as a screenwriter.

Craig (00:05:58):

No, it’s a stinker. I think. I mean, just aside from it being fascist propaganda, it’s boring. It’s really boring.

Hal (00:06:09):

There are a few notable images in it.

Craig (00:06:11):

Yeah, yeah. There is some cool looking shit. But it is like

Hal (00:06:14):

Pre skit shot on the side of a cliff, and it’s really well lit.

Craig (00:06:18):

Honestly. The part that sticks with me the absolute most in the movie is there is a really pivotal scene where the lead character is shot in the head but survives. And then,

Laci (00:06:32):

Oh yes. I remember you describing to

Craig (00:06:33):

Hospital and he’s in a coma, and his coma face is so funny. He’s just like, and that was the most enduring part for me. I like that a lot.

Laci (00:06:47):

And you said he walks into, I thought that

Craig (00:06:48):

Was fired.

Laci (00:06:49):

He walks into a room with just the bandage around his forehead, like a sweat band. And is the person he’s been working with was like, who is this? Oh, lemme take off my disguise.

Hal (00:07:03):

Yes. And that whole film is on YouTube with English subtitles.

Craig (00:07:07):

Yes, it is.

Hal (00:07:07):

If you wish to watch it. And it’s very pixelated.

Craig (00:07:10):

And boy does it play at two times speed. If you click it up there,

Laci (00:07:15):

What kind of run time we talking? Okay. Okay.

Matt (00:07:18):

Well, maybe we don’t appreciate his screenwriting, but I admire the effort. I like that he at least went out and tried to make a movie. Good

Hal (00:07:26):

For him.

Matt (00:07:27):

Good for

Hal (00:07:28):

Him. He for sure said, I’m going to express myself via all forms of hegemony, not just political. We’re going cultural too.

Matt (00:07:35):

So many dictators are obsessed with movies. I mean, he’s the one who actually said, I’m going to try to make one myself.

Laci (00:07:43):

I feel like Kim Jong Un also makes a lot of,

Matt (00:07:45):

He doesn’t make them.

Laci (00:07:47):

Oh yes, he does.

Matt (00:07:48):

Does he?

Laci (00:07:48):

No, I have no fucking idea.

Matt (00:07:50):

It’s the north probably.

Laci (00:07:51):

I’m sure he’s got a credit on all of them. Just by decree.

Matt (00:07:55):

I want to get everybody’s individual histories and relationship with American Psycho, the movie American Psycho, the book American Psycho. Let’s start. Let’s start with you two. Tell us what’s your relationship with this movie?

Craig (00:08:06):

I have what I, well, maybe it’s just because this is who I am, but I feel like is a lot, the overwhelming history with this movie is that I was a 14, 15, 16-year-old suburban white boy that liked horror stuff. And people were like, you should watch American Psycho. And I did. And I was like, that was disgusting. And I love that. It was crazy. And I was probably, I mean at least like to think I was aware enough of the subtext of masculinity and Yup. And the stuff we’ll get into. But as a 14 or 15-year-old, I just loved it. It was gory and about a serial killer, and I liked horror stuff.

Hal (00:08:54):

And I would say for me, I couldn’t tell you the exact time that I initially watched it, but it was certainly during a period in my early teenage years where I was undergoing a feminist awakening. And in the early two thousands at that time, mainstream liberal feminism was very obsessed with, it was hypercritical of other women. It was very judgmental and it was very liberal. So I think about this book that I read called Female Chauvinist Pigs at that time, around that same time by this feminist writer, Ariel Levy. And it was about how women are oppressing themselves by taking pole dancing classes. And if you’re a slut, you’re evil and that kind of thing. And I remember seeing the movie around the same time that that was the kind of information that was being input into my 14-year-old brain and being like, oh, this movie sucks. It is misogynistic. It hates women. And then a little bit later, and I don’t know if the documentary came out at that same time, or I just saw it afterwards, but I saw this movie is not yet rated.

Craig (00:10:08):

Oh yeah. Kirby Dick,

Hal (00:10:09):

Which is a documentary about the MPAA and how its ratings work. And Mary Herron who directed this film, who I’m sure we’ll talk more about is very prominently featured in it and discussions around the rating of this movie and her feelings that the MPA was much more interested in just letting the violence against women run free while limiting the sexual acts in it kind of clicked some things into place for me. I’m not going to say that that’s the only thing that started to shift my young teenage mind around these issues, but it definitely resituated how I perceived the film. And I’ve seen it, I don’t know, probably 10 times, somewhere in that neighborhood. And now I quite like it

Matt (00:11:00):

Either. Did either of you read the book? The Brett Easton El Ellis book?

Hal (00:11:03):

I have not read American Psycho, but I have read other Brett Easton Ellis works.

Craig (00:11:08):

I’ve listened to the audio book That

Matt (00:11:11):

Counts. That counts, counts. I

Craig (00:11:13):

Know people get our part particular, and I feel like I was lying that I read it without disclosing, but yes. But it was a very long time ago, and I remember lots of chapters on fragrances

Laci (00:11:25):

And brand names

Craig (00:11:26):

And there’s, I think maybe just lists long lists of things like the

Laci (00:11:31):

Bible.

Matt (00:11:33):

Until a few days ago, I had never read a word of Fred Ellis, but I too listened to the audiobook, at least a lot of it. It is really hard to, there are so many brand names and I know that that’s the point, but it is overwhelming and kind of obnoxious.

Hal (00:11:47):

He keeps like a consumerist Tolkien.

Matt (00:11:50):

Yes. That’s perfect. Yes. Every couple pages you have to stop off for a song, except it’s just a list of clothing brands. And it is a fun book and it’s a funny book, but I’d always been aware of Brett Sunis as this cultural figure without really knowing why. And now I’ve kind of crammed interviews with him over the past few days.

Laci (00:12:14):

Well, and he’s like brat pack of Jason, right? He did Less Than Zero.

Matt (00:12:18):

Well, he did, and he was apparently called, there was something called the Literary Brat Pack that was, which I think was just off the piggybacking off of the actual, should we try,

Hal (00:12:28):

So Donna Tart is the other major person, se she had the Goldfinch Yes. And Secret History, but they were good friends in college. So it’s like people, I forget, is it Bard? I think maybe was Bennington? Bennington. Bennington

Matt (00:12:43):

In Vermont. And then Jonathan Letham School, the guy who wrote Motherless Brooklyn was like their third friend. But yeah, he did Less Than Zero, which was Andrew McCarthy and James Spader and Robert Downey Jr. Were in the movie adaptation of that. But yeah, until a few days ago, I didn’t really know that much about him other than as a reference. And my relationship with this movie is not much until I watched it one time when Laci 11, it was 2014. Laci was like, you’ve never seen American Psycho. And so we watched it and I think I liked it and probably I didn’t totally get it. I was like, wait a minute, is this real or not? I don’t, it’s

Laci (00:13:24):

Kind of beside the point, Matt,

Matt (00:13:26):

But I definitely thought Christian Bale was really funny. Didn’t think, but it’s always been one of these things that Laci will pull out a reference to. She’ll say often she says, Jason Bateman. And then I’m like, oh, Jason Bateman from a race Arrested Development. Hey Patrick. You know what I mean? And then eventually you’ll correct, oh, Patrick Bateman from American Psycho. But it’s very clearly like a big reference for you. That’s not for me. So I’ve watched it twice in the past few days and I love it. It’s great. It’s wonderful. It should have been part of my life my whole life.

Craig (00:13:54):

Hell yeah. I was on the edge there. I thought you were building up to a, and it’s just not for me.

Laci (00:14:00):

Oh, then the divorce

Matt (00:14:02):

Happened.

Craig (00:14:02):

It’s

Matt (00:14:02):

Just

Laci (00:14:03):

Four,

Matt (00:14:03):

Right? Yes, but this is Laci’s Load Bearing Beam. What’s your history,

Laci (00:14:07):

Laci? Well, I probably saw it. Shit, it’s 2000. So probably in the theater and I probably didn’t totally get it, but I was definitely in love with Christian Bale because I wanted him to kill me real hard. And then I think I’ve just kept watching as I cRoth different moments in my life, become an adult, become a mother, all these things. The movie starts taking on these whole different meanings for me. And then this last watch, it’s morphed yet again. And now I can firmly say Patrick Bateman is one of my special baby boys, one of my misunderstood little baby boys that I’m going to defend forever. Yes, there you go.

Matt (00:14:52):

I’ve heard a lot about this over the past few days.

Laci (00:14:53):

Shut up

Matt (00:14:54):

Patrick Pateman misunderstood icon. I mean, I don’t disagree.

Laci (00:14:58):

Okay, and here’s my other misunderstood little guy. Look at a tweet.

Craig (00:15:02):

Matt, when was the last time you got reservations at Dorsia?

Matt (00:15:05):

I’ve never able to. I call and they laugh at me,

Laci (00:15:08):

But he does give me a roofie and he wakes me up at Denny’s and he tells me, no, that lady’s gotten hardly any of those teeth.

Craig (00:15:18):

I dunno if we’re getting into the film yet, but I did Google because is Dorsey a real place? And then immediately felt dumb. It’s not if anybody was wondering, but

Laci (00:15:27):

Arcadia is

Craig (00:15:29):

What is

Laci (00:15:30):

Arcadia?

Matt (00:15:31):

Well, it’s a real place in New Orleans.

Laci (00:15:33):

I know that

Matt (00:15:33):

Doesn’t count out, but it’s real. That’s not the one they were talking about’s, the bar arcade for adults. You dunno,

Laci (00:15:41):

You don’t know.

Matt (00:15:42):

But that is one of those things where it’s like, IM sure if you lived in New York in the eighties, you’re like, ah, he’s really taken us down a peg with all these fake restaurant names

Speaker 5 (00:15:50):

And these

Matt (00:15:50):

Absurd dinner orders. And I don’t understand any of it. I just assume it’s all well observed and funny.

Craig (00:15:56):

It does feel like there is one he had in mind though, I feel like. For sure. Yeah.

Matt (00:16:01):

Yeah. Dors is the good one. And then when Patrick Bateman says, no one goes to Dorsia anymore, I even feel it. I’m like, no, no, don’t say that about Dorsia. Alright, we’re going to do our history segment. So this all starts with Brett Easton Ellis, who was born in 1964, grew up in the San Fernando Valley and then went to Bennington College in Vermont where he formed the literary Brat Pack while he was in college at the age of 21. He wrote and published the novel Less Than Zero, and it was a critical and commercial success. It was adapted into a film in 1987 starring Laci’s boyfriend, Andrew McCarthy, my least favorite actor, and Robert Downey Jr. And that was like the Robert Downey Jr. Performance for so many years.

(00:17:06):

Follow up book was Rules of Attraction, which did less well commercially and critically, but his third book was American Psycho, which he wrote when he was 25 or 26, ultimately published in 1991. But there was a big controversy about this book because of the graphic depictions of violence against women. So for my source for this, there’s an oral history of American Psycho from a movie maker in 2020, and I have a link in the description. So yeah, quote here from Brady Stellis from 2020. It was definitely a criticism of male values that were around me, and it was easier for me, I think to notice those values made clearly because I was gay. I am gay. And I think that gave me a distance and a perspective as to noticing them more than if I was heterosexual and participating in the society at that time.

(00:17:54):

I was definitely participating, but being gay is really a distance. You are 4% of the population. You do not share a lot of the same feelings and experiences that straight men do. Certainly in late eighties Manhattan, I think I was watching a lot of this behavior on the sidelines and I wanted to criticize it, and a lot of it had to do with money above all else. Greed is good. The ethos of that era that was bothering me and just the attitude of the cocky young stockbroker, which really had spread among so many men, it was really apparent to me as a young man struggling with the notion of becoming an adult finally and not wanting to become an adult in that society. So he wrote this book that he intended to be a takedown of men like Patrick Bateman, but was instead before it was published, like a manuscript was leaked and excerpts were being read sort of out of context. And this led to a boycott or a boycott campaign was called for by the National Organization for Women. And a big champion of this boycott was Gloria Steinem, who in a very remarkable coincidence would later marry Christian Bale’s dad.

Hal (00:18:58):

Gloria

Matt (00:18:58):

Steinem is Christian Bale’s stepmom. Stop it.

Hal (00:19:01):

That’s crazy. She’s also also CIA asset. So

Matt (00:19:03):

She is, or Christian Bale is, or Christian’s dad is.

Hal (00:19:07):

No, Gloria Steinem.

Matt (00:19:08):

Okay. Okay. It’s unfortunately one of those things that you can say it about anybody. I’m like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Christian Bale’s dad. Absolutely.

Craig (00:19:17):

Christian Bale too. And that one guy who was yelling at on the set of

Matt (00:19:22):

That Dator

Craig (00:19:23):

Terminator

Matt (00:19:24):

Salvation.

Craig (00:19:24):

Yeah. Guys also fed

Matt (00:19:25):

A big time spook. So this controversy got tons of attention to the book and it was finally published and became a big hit. So a movie enters development. Now the person when I read the person who first championed making this into a movie was the exact person who I would be like, yeah, of course you want to do it. Who do you think I’m talking about? Laci?

Laci (00:19:50):

Fuck, I didn’t know there would be a quiz.

Matt (00:19:52):

What annoying guy from the nineties is always doing stuff. Johnny Depp. Johnny

Laci (00:19:57):

Depp is, I think it would be Johnny Depp.

Matt (00:19:59):

And he goes to a producer and he’s like, oh, I should produce this movie. I

Laci (00:20:03):

Was in Cry Baby.

Matt (00:20:04):

Yeah. So he has a producer, Edward Pressman, purchased the rights to the book and gets to work developing it. The first director attached to the movie is David Cronenberg, which I think makes a ton of sense. And maybe it’s the only other, I love the movie as it is, but I think probably able to handle the mixture of tones. But he hired Fredson Ellis to be the screenwriter, but then gave him very specific instructions. I don’t want anything, any scenes that take place in a restaurant or a nightclub. And also the movie has to be under 90 pages or 90 minutes.

Speaker 5 (00:20:41):

Hell.

Matt (00:20:41):

And so they started feuding and he left the project, and that is when Mary Herron came aboard. So Mary Herron, and we’ll do a little overview of her, but she said in that 2020 oral history, she said, what occurred to me is that just enough time had passed to make a period film about the eighties and say things about the eighties and bring out the satire. And that was interesting to me when I had my call with Ed Pressman, the producer, to discuss it further, I said, I don’t know if you can make a film of this book, but if you’ll give me the money to write a screenplay, I’ll try. Because they had sent me another screenplay and I wasn’t interested. I could only do it if I did my own version. So she brought on her collaborator, the co screenwriter g Guinevere Turner, who was also in the movie. She plays Elizabeth, one of Patrick’s victims,

Laci (00:21:32):

The one that’s trying to get Coke at three in the morning,

Matt (00:21:34):

Whatever.

Laci (00:21:34):

Yes.

Matt (00:21:35):

Heron said quote, I can’t remember when G Guinevere came up, but pretty early because we were already working on the movie that became the notorious Betty Page. I felt it would be a lot more fun to work with her on this. And because I had just done, I shot Andy Warhol, which was about a radical feminist, and she had just done Go Fish and indie lesbian romantic comedy. No one could tell us what was and was not misogynist end quote. So they hire Mary Herron and Guinevere Turner to write a new screenplay and commission and hire Mary Herron to direct it. The movie that she had done right before this is I shot Andy Warhol in 1996. Have either of you seen this movie?

Hal (00:22:12):

I actually watched it to prepare for this because I have been desiring to view it, and so I decided to use this as an opportunity to do so. I think watching them, I watched them two days apart, really affected in a positive way my experience of American Psycho this time because they’re really two pieces of the same puzzle in terms of depicting the causes and consequences of violence, of gendered violence, but through two kind of dialectical opposing frameworks.

Matt (00:22:47):

Man, I wish I’d gotten to watch it. It’s not streaming, but it’s on YouTube. Did you watch it on YouTube?

Hal (00:22:53):

I think I used a site that has dubious,

Matt (00:22:58):

Everybody knows about these sites, but me, everybody’s

Hal (00:23:00):

Always telling me, somebody email Matt, what happens is my husband, I go, Hey, I can’t find this movie. And he goes, here,

Matt (00:23:09):

Can you have your husband call me please?

Laci (00:23:11):

Your cousin husband, what are you implying?

Matt (00:23:12):

Can you have your husband call me, please?

Laci (00:23:14):

It’s not that part of Florida.

Matt (00:23:16):

Yeah, it’s on YouTube, but it looks so bad on YouTube. I gave up on watching it after a few minutes, but yeah, I was thinking

Laci (00:23:22):

How he’s a pixel snow.

Matt (00:23:24):

Do they feel like parts of the same? I don’t know. That’s kind of exactly what I was thinking.

Hal (00:23:29):

Very much so. And in particular, the way that pathology psychopathology is gendered and also class plays a big role, and I shot Andy Warhol because Valerie Solanas, if you don’t know anything about her, was like a person, a young woman experiencing homelessness who was turning tricks to survive. So it’s almost like if one of the sex workers that we see Patrick Bateman kill, if the movie focused on the subsequent violent consequences of her being exposed to violence.

Matt (00:24:14):

So everybody check out, I shot Andy Warhol on one of those sites. I loved

Laci (00:24:17):

It. Violence for Sport and then Violence for Survival.

Matt (00:24:21):

But yeah, it’s just great this age of Plenty where everything is available at the click of a button, except this movie, which is not streaming anywhere. Not streaming anywhere legally, but yet she went on to direct the Notorious Betty Page, the Moth Diaries, Charlie says, and Dolly Land, and she also directed all of a Netflix miniseries that Laci and I watched, and I remember liking Alias Grace.

Laci (00:24:43):

I don’t remember that.

Matt (00:24:43):

That was a Margaret Atwood novel that, anyway, so we’ll talk a little bit more about Christian BA in a minute, but after auditioning him, Mary Heron is like, this is my guy. This has to be, this is Patrick Bateman. There’s nothing else we can do. But the studio decided they were going to make a giant splash and pay $20 million to hire the biggest movie star, young movie star in the world at the time. Leonardo DiCaprio

Laci (00:25:04):

GRoth

Matt (00:25:05):

Two years after Titan Titanic.

Laci (00:25:06):

He would’ve had a tiny pencil and a notepad the whole time writing down his tiny drawings of French women being fucked by goddamn chain sauce.

Matt (00:25:14):

So much poetry

Laci (00:25:15):

With wet hair.

Matt (00:25:16):

Yeah, I’ll say so

Hal (00:25:17):

Much more wearing headphones while fucking somebody is true to life. And so he’s well practiced at that.

Matt (00:25:24):

Does he do that?

Hal (00:25:25):

Yes. Yeah. This was a big thing in gossip circles in the early two thousands. Yes. He wears headphones and listens to music while having sex with groupies. He was a part of, well, maybe

Laci (00:25:35):

He has that thing where

Hal (00:25:36):

He’s

Craig (00:25:37):

Cool

Hal (00:25:37):

Guys,

Laci (00:25:37):

Where he doesn’t like mouth noises. Then you’re in a lady’s business and that’s making its noises. Maybe he doesn’t, that’s a thing. That’s a kind of neuro divergence.

Craig (00:25:47):

Yeah, that’s probably what it is. That’s what it’s, that’s called my sister who I can’t have dinner with anymore.

Laci (00:25:52):

Right, because you won’t stop making human noises. I get it. Exactly

Craig (00:25:56):

Correct.

Laci (00:25:56):

Yeah, it’s your fault.

Matt (00:25:58):

That’s funny. So it’s not even little tiny AirPods. It was back in the day when you just have to have the big old earphones

Laci (00:26:04):

And then fucking horse blinders. He’s completely in a deprivation tank. Fucking I got it.

Craig (00:26:11):

Do you know Leonardo DiCaprio’s little group that he had in the late nineties? You’re

Matt (00:26:16):

Referring to the Pussy Posse. The Pussy

Craig (00:26:17):

Posse. Oh yeah, the Pussy Posse.

Matt (00:26:20):

We’ve had some encounters with the Pussy Posse on this podcast before.

Craig (00:26:23):

Who’s your fave? Who’s your Sinatra?

Matt (00:26:26):

Well, I got to go with Toby McGuire. I think he’s the secret Lord evil of the

Laci (00:26:31):

Organization. It’s Leo all day for me. You have all this posse,

Matt (00:26:35):

Lucas

Craig (00:26:35):

Haas, all the way for me,

Hal (00:26:38):

Lucas Haas. Let’s see how Leo does in the new PTA movie at the end of this year.

Matt (00:26:44):

Oh hell yeah.

Hal (00:26:44):

To make

Laci (00:26:45):

Our final decisions.

Hal (00:26:46):

Yes.

Matt (00:26:47):

Are you a Leo skeptic?

Hal (00:26:50):

I am an agnostic.

Matt (00:26:52):

Okay, okay. Because

Hal (00:26:53):

Matt is skeptic and now,

Matt (00:26:54):

Well, I’m skeptic before, I guess before Scorsese got ahold

Hal (00:27:00):

Of him. Yeah, I love him. I love his performances in those films, but just him as an overall entity got it. Annoying.

Matt (00:27:09):

But there is no Leonardo DiCaprio. He’s just an entity, an apparition, an idea of Leonard DiCaprio. He’s not even

Laci (00:27:16):

There. He’s just the pussies. He’s popped in a collection.

Matt (00:27:22):

So Lionsgate is like, yeah, we’re going to make this big splash by hiring DiCaprio and they don’t even consult Heron about it. They just put out a,

Laci (00:27:29):

That’s misogynistic.

Matt (00:27:30):

They put it out in the trades. Lionsgate signed DiCaprio and Mary Heron threatened to quit right away. She did not want DiCaprio for the part. She said he carried enormous baggage because he had just come off Titanic and I thought, you cannot take someone who has a worldwide fan base of 15-year-old girls, 14-year-old girls and cast him as Patrick Bateman. It’ll be intolerable and everyone will interfere and everyone will be terrified. It would be very bad for him and very bad for the movie because everyone will be all over it.

Laci (00:28:02):

Yeah, he wasn’t ready to turn heel.

Matt (00:28:04):

No,

Laci (00:28:04):

Not for a long time.

Matt (00:28:05):

They’ll rewrite the script and all the rest and I know, and I knew I could only make this work if I had complete control over it, over the tone and everything. The other thing is a lot of the plot depends on people mistaking Bateman for someone else. Not a lot of people look like Leo DiCaprio. I love just the very practical way of looking at that and not many movies I have sort of face blindness. Not a lot of movies address. You have

Laci (00:28:29):

Absolute face blindness

Matt (00:28:31):

Address. This idea that people can just get mistaken for other people as a normal part of life. So I like that. She was just like, yeah, no one’s going to do that with DiCaprio now. No one should be doing it with Christian Bale either, but okay.

Craig (00:28:44):

DiCaprio’s just too young too. I feel like in that era

Laci (00:28:46):

He doesn’t, wasn’t grizzled. He didn’t have sexy wrinkles yet.

Craig (00:28:50):

Yeah, although you’re not supposed to. Male’s also very young, but he looks a little bit more, I dunno, I can’t see DiCaprio that age being jacked and kind of hulking.

Hal (00:29:03):

Gangs of New York, I think is 2002, and

Laci (00:29:06):

He looked baby, he looked still a tiny baby. Yeah. The suits would’ve been like Diane Keaton shoulder pads on. I just wore him a dead suit that he doesn’t have the height. I need the height. I need the Burnett

Matt (00:29:21):

Situation. We did catch me, if you can, last summer, and he’s still a baby in that tiny

Laci (00:29:25):

Baby. That

Matt (00:29:26):

Movie’s about the fact that this little boy man is doing all these

Laci (00:29:30):

Things. He plays a 15-year-old

Matt (00:29:31):

Christian. Christian Bale is the age of the character. He looks like a 27-year-old asshole.

Laci (00:29:37):

Yes.

Matt (00:29:39):

I’m sorry. 7-year-old. Misunderstood baby.

Laci (00:29:42):

My God. Okay,

Matt (00:29:43):

So the studio fires Mary Herron and at least gets in serious discussions with Oliver Stone, but ultimately Oliver Stone declines and DiCaprio. That would be a very different movie. It would be three hours long with a four and a half hour director’s cut, and I would probably like it and think it’s a lot of fun.

Laci (00:30:05):

It’s a win-win.

Matt (00:30:06):

Yeah. It’s a win-win for everyone. But yeah, so Oliver Stone does not come aboard and they bring back Mary Herron with the condition, with the condition that Christian Bale comes.

Laci (00:30:20):

So she got the condition, not they bring her back and then they got conditions.

Matt (00:30:24):

That’s right.

Laci (00:30:24):

Okay.

Matt (00:30:25):

Alright. Christian Bale, who is Christian Bale? Well

Laci (00:30:27):

Tell me he’s only six foot tall. Why? You could have lied to me.

Matt (00:30:32):

You thought he was taller. Yeah.

Hal (00:30:34):

All famous men are much shorter because they have to be approximate heights for filming purposes. You don’t want somebody who’s six five filming next to a tiny, itty bitty woman.

Laci (00:30:44):

Then it’s like Terminator two where they have to dig the hole for Edward Furlong to stand in because he’s gone through puberty. Yeah. Fuck.

Matt (00:30:52):

You’re so much more aware of heights than I am.

Laci (00:30:54):

Never. I love the height.

Matt (00:30:55):

Yeah, I know.

Laci (00:30:55):

I want to scale a man. That’s why I like

Matt (00:30:57):

You. If I ever forget to put somebody’s height in these slideshows, Laci gets upset.

Laci (00:31:01):

Well, don’t get upset. I just interrupt by asking, how tall are they?

Matt (00:31:04):

And then I have to Google,

Laci (00:31:05):

You get upset. I just have questions.

Matt (00:31:07):

Christian BA was 26 years old when he made this movie. Six Feet Tall.

Laci (00:31:10):

You got two times speed all of a sudden.

Matt (00:31:12):

Born in 1974 in Wales at age 13, he was of course the lead of Steven Spielberg’s Empire of the Sun in the nineties. After that, he was the lead of this musical called Newsies.

Laci (00:31:24):

That’s where I also know him from. Of course I know Newsies. Wow.

Matt (00:31:30):

Okay. Didn’t expect that kind of a reaction to news. I had no idea. I

Craig (00:31:34):

Loved it until just help. Never seen it.

Laci (00:31:37):

We should cover it someday, honestly. Yeah, I would be down now. Dibs. Dibs. I’m kidding.

Craig (00:31:42):

You guys can join us to talk about music together. There you

Matt (00:31:44):

Go. Clam. He’s in. He plays supporting roles in the 1994. Little women, little women. He’s in Portrait of a Lady, the Jane Campion movie, velvet Goldmine in 1998. American Psycho in 2000 is the beginning of Hollywood being like, you’re a leading man. We’re going to make this happen. And it takes a little while, but obviously Batman begins in oh five. It’s finally,

Laci (00:32:04):

Man,

Matt (00:32:04):

It finally happens.

Laci (00:32:05):

Does horror new normally do that for a person? I feel you got to be pretty special. It’s got to be a pretty special kind of horror to leading man now I feel like that can sideline you sometimes think helps.

Craig (00:32:17):

Yeah. Being hot down to a science.

Matt (00:32:22):

Yeah. Yeah. I don’t think this movie was intended to make him a star because he said, let’s see, he said quote, everybody had told me it was career suicide, which really made me want to do it,

Speaker 5 (00:32:37):

And

Matt (00:32:37):

I guess I was a little bit that it didn’t end up being career suicide. What the fuck? I kind of hope that maybe that was it and I’d have to find something else to go do. I’m perverse. They told me I should, so of course Jesus. Yeah, that’s Christian Bale. He’s

Laci (00:32:50):

Always kind of a dark night when you think about it.

Matt (00:32:52):

Honestly,

Craig (00:32:54):

I don’t like that attitude. That’s like when you see it, an interview with an actor and they’re like, if I had to have a regular job, man. Yeah. I can’t imagine doing anything else like Shut the fuck

Hal (00:33:05):

Up. Can you imagine him shouting at a coworker at Whataburger?

Craig (00:33:10):

Oh, good for you. That’s my favorite thing that he yells in that thing. We’re like, the guy clearly makes a good point back to him and he doesn’t know what to say and he’s like, oh, good for you.

Matt (00:33:21):

And because he’s a method actor and he’s playing an American character in that movie, he is doing all of this in his American accent

Craig (00:33:29):

Because

Matt (00:33:29):

He can’t break character to yell at the dp.

Craig (00:33:32):

Yeah. Also, that movie is directed by Mick G, and it’s just fucking stupid that a grown man is having people call him Mick G, but in the rant it’s also hilarious. He’s like, Mick g, Mick g, what

Matt (00:33:44):

Do you think about this? I know, I know. Now I have heard a lot of people are secretly like, yeah, but Christian bales, right? That DP is an asshole.

Speaker 5 (00:33:54):

Yeah.

Laci (00:33:56):

You heard

Matt (00:33:57):

I’m very plugged

Laci (00:33:58):

In. He listens to the Dough Boys and

Matt (00:34:00):

We hate movies. So he’s real plugged and I go on Reddit.

Laci (00:34:05):

He does. He reads it.

Matt (00:34:06):

I love dough Boys.

Laci (00:34:07):

Wait, I love them too. Wait,

Matt (00:34:09):

I did not hear that on Dough Boys. Please.

Laci (00:34:11):

No shade. I’m just saying that’s your plug to the industry, man.

Matt (00:34:16):

Let’s see. Christian Bale and Mary Herron we’re almost done with the history segment. I swear Christian Bale said that he was talking with Mary Herron about developing the character of Patrick Bateman and he said, quote, I think the thing that united us on is I had no interest in his background childhood, and she didn’t either. We looked at him as an alien who landed in the unabashedly capitalist New York of the eighties and looked around and said, how do I perform a successful male in this world? And that was our beginning point, and we didn’t want to talk about why he was this way, what happened in his childhood. There was none of that between Mary and I.

Laci (00:34:49):

That’s what I’m here for. I’m going to make up a whole fucking backstory.

Hal (00:34:54):

I think this is one of the things that I thought was a really beautiful contrast between I shot Andy Warhol and American Psycho, is that I shot Andy Warhol is very interested in ideology of Valerie Solana’s trauma and what has happened to her in the past and what led her to here and has this very humanistic interpretation of where she is and how she got there compared to the treatment of Patrick Bateman’s violence.

Laci (00:35:22):

That’s very interesting though, because then that just kind of assumes that somebody that’s born with everything shouldn’t also have the kind of background that could lead them to this kind of rage. And that’s not true. But like, oh, but let’s, let’s look at the poor person who’s got to exploit herself. Let’s exploit her a little bit more. And that’s more interesting to, that’s why girl get mad. Boy get mad

Hal (00:35:47):

Because boy, I think the lack of exploration of it here is about how it’s endemic to upper class masculinity as opposed that it’s inherent to the construct of that form of masculinity itself as opposed to being a subjected, projected upon experience for a poor woman.

Matt (00:36:10):

Plus, I feel like you get everything you need to know about him just in watching the movie and just like Reese Witherspoon saying, your dad basically owns the company, I

Laci (00:36:17):

Want to fit in saddest just fucking line. I’m going to get it tattooed next to this one.

Matt (00:36:23):

Yeah, it is a great line. I

Laci (00:36:25):

Love it.

Matt (00:36:26):

This is a very quotable movie. Lot of good lines. I kept writing in my notes. That’s a good line. I’m

Craig (00:36:30):

Going right there. There’s one that it will get me in trouble one day.

Laci (00:36:34):

What is it? Do it Do it.

Craig (00:36:35):

The one when anytime somebody can’t hear me in a crowded place, I kind of will make the joke to my wife. I want to play with your blood whenever you’re just trying to shout over people and then they can, I want to play with Your Blood. I love that part.

Matt (00:36:51):

And then you’re like, no, it’s a movie. It’s a movie. Movie. It’s a movie. So American Psycho on a $7 million budget made 34 million at the box office, but I think its Real Legacy was on cable in home video where it became a classic and then two years later, a directive video sequel that I had no idea about starring me, LA Kuni and William Shatner. Totally unrelated, but that came out on home video and now a remake is in development and this has got Hal fired up. So tell us about the remake.

Hal (00:37:20):

Yes, so I am a huge fan of Luca and his remake or inscription or reinterpretation or whatever you want to call it, of Suspiria is one of my favorite movies. I love the classic, of course love Dario, but though maybe it’s less visually stunning Luca’s version is, I think about it all the time. It’s like wormed. Its way into my brain. I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. And I was really skeptical when that came out in 2018. I was like, what do you mean he’s remaking? So I would trust him with any property, with any content, and I cannot wait to see what he does. And I’m also extremely high on Austin Butler after Dune part two, and Elvis was kind of genius. So is he still, he nothing but

Laci (00:38:20):

A sand worm.

Craig (00:38:21):

Is he still stuck doing that voice though? That might make it tough.

Matt (00:38:24):

He’s still stuck. Yes, he’s

Craig (00:38:25):

Stuck. He’s stuck through

Matt (00:38:26):

Shooting eyebrows.

Craig (00:38:27):

Collins.

Matt (00:38:28):

Can you imagine a voice that people craft for this?

Laci (00:38:31):

Oh God,

Matt (00:38:31):

He’s never going to come out of it. He’s never going to come out of it. Ever

Laci (00:38:34):

Bateman voice

Matt (00:38:35):

Ever? Boy, I totally forgot that he did the Suspiria remake and that’s the best case scenario of a sacred cow getting remade and people being like, yeah, I liked it. I liked the remake, love the remake,

Hal (00:38:48):

And it’s something so distinct. That is my thing, is that I don’t even feel like you can compare them. Aside from the coven in a German ballet, there is nothing related similar about the two films. So I’m very curious to see what it looks like in the context of something that has a textual basis. How much is he playing on that? But also his most recent adaptation queer, which I have, I don’t unabashedly love that, but I love a lot of it and yeah, I think that he’s going to crush it. I’m going in with Sky High Expectations.

Matt (00:39:27):

We haven’t seen queer yet, but we love challengers.

Hal (00:39:30):

Oh, fucking yeah, challengers is amazing.

Matt (00:39:32):

Okay. I haven’t seen either yet.

Hal (00:39:33):

Okay. You have watched

Matt (00:39:34):

Challengers.

Craig (00:39:35):

I

Hal (00:39:35):

Mean Challengers is just a great adult movie. They don’t make movies

Craig (00:39:39):

Like that. Guess challenge one

Hal (00:39:40):

That

Craig (00:39:42):

When you and your significant other agree on watching a movie and then don’t think of it, but you know, can’t watch it without them, so it just goes unwatched for a year. Oh

Laci (00:39:50):

Yeah, no, you’re speaking to our heart right now.

Matt (00:39:52):

There needs to be a word for this.

Laci (00:39:54):

A Load Bearing team.

Matt (00:39:58):

No, but yes, that is a very distinct phenomenon of this age that we experience all the

Laci (00:40:02):

Time. Matt will stop a movie like 10 Minutes in when he is like, Nope, nope. That’s a Laci movie. Got to back it up.

Craig (00:40:09):

It’s why I’m 10 Seasons Behind on Archer or never started.

Matt (00:40:14):

Well, I started watching. I watched people under the stairs because you guys did an episode

Laci (00:40:20):

And I told you because of their episode, I wanted to watch it and you did it without me and I’m still upset.

Matt (00:40:24):

And I said, when were we going to do this?

Laci (00:40:26):

It’s always your fucking answer.

Matt (00:40:27):

Make time. It’s always a good answer.

Laci (00:40:29):

It’s always a good answer. It shuts me down. So it’s real crazy.

Hal (00:40:31):

Craziest thing about that movie is that I had not watched Twin Peaks prior to seeing it,

Speaker 5 (00:40:36):

And

Hal (00:40:37):

I sense watched all of Twin Peaks. Okay, I feel like I got to go back and watch Mommy and Daddy be

Laci (00:40:44):

Freaks. That’s going to heighten it for me. Okay, good. I’ve already done my homework on accident.

Craig (00:40:48):

Yes. Also, Ving RA’s

Laci (00:40:50):

Great. Right? That’s the part I want to, yep.

Craig (00:40:53):

Luck. They’re going to make me the president of Pussy. He says the car on the way.

Hal (00:40:58):

Okay. Pussy count two. I just have to say Keep, was I both of them? Yes. Shit, what was the other one? Wait, what’s my count?

Matt (00:41:05):

Fuck. I don’t feel like that should count. I’m going to protest that one.

Laci (00:41:10):

Don’t protest. No rioting.

Matt (00:41:47):

Alright, let’s get to the movie itself, which opens of course with raspberries.

Laci (00:41:52):

You don’t know

Matt (00:41:52):

On the commentary. Mary Herron says it was our idea to have, she said in the eighties this Raspberry Goo was on all the food and she said, if you didn’t know, you thought you would think you’re looking at blood. But no, it’s just

Laci (00:42:06):

Raspberries. We’re just kidding. It’s like Charlie in the chocolate factory when you think it’s poop.

Matt (00:42:11):

Yeah,

Laci (00:42:11):

That’s what I

Matt (00:42:12):

Always think.

Laci (00:42:12):

It’s just like that. Oh, it’s a shit factory.

Matt (00:42:15):

So we meet the four best friends. I like to think of them as,

Laci (00:42:19):

They’re so close.

Matt (00:42:20):

We got Justin Thoreau, we got Josh Lucas, we got Bill Sage. Don’t know that guy.

Laci (00:42:25):

No one knows that

Matt (00:42:27):

Guy and Christian Bale.

Craig (00:42:28):

Oh, billage is the guy. Is he the one that plays? He plays the president of the company in Silicon Valley. He’s the president of

Matt (00:42:35):

That’s to it. No, no, no. Come on. No, that’s Louis.

Laci (00:42:39):

Louis.

Craig (00:42:39):

Yeah, that’s Louis truckers. Oh shit, Lewis. That’s right.

Matt (00:42:41):

Yeah. Nevermind. Yeah, Matt Roth is the closeted

Laci (00:42:45):

Man. Oh fuck. I really, there’s something so familiar about him. Does he look like Devin Sea Wolf?

Matt (00:42:50):

You probably know him from American Psycho.

Laci (00:42:52):

No, I don’t.

Matt (00:42:52):

That might be it.

Craig (00:42:53):

He’s

Laci (00:42:53):

Barely in

Matt (00:42:54):

It. I heard you liked that movie.

Laci (00:42:55):

I do like it.

Matt (00:42:56):

So I mean, what do we think of these guys? Somebody, Laci, tell us about these gentlemen.

Laci (00:43:03):

They’re thick as thieves. No, they’re so disinterested with each other. They’re going around measuring dicks, looking around at the most pastel, disgusting grandma’s living room restaurant at all. The faceless, black, slick haired people just like them. They’re there to be seen and to get that sweet cachet. They made a reservation. Matt, they’re all about the reservations.

Craig (00:43:31):

What are they bragging about in the first scene? It’s not the business cards yet, but aren’t they preparing shit? What is the conversation they’re having at the beginning?

Laci (00:43:41):

I thought it was just about restaurants.

Craig (00:43:42):

Is it

Matt (00:43:42):

About reservations?

Laci (00:43:43):

Yeah, about reservations or is

Craig (00:43:44):

It

Matt (00:43:45):

Account?

Laci (00:43:46):

Yeah, and then that Paul Allen has an account how to get it. I don’t know. It’s really kind of interspliced with the food ordering and the crazy menu stuff

Matt (00:43:56):

And there’s a lot of talking past each other. They’re always having separate conversations, not actually talking to each other.

Laci (00:44:01):

Right. It’s not really a club. They’re not really there to listen. They’re there to see and be seen and to wear their Valentina suits.

Matt (00:44:07):

I meant to ask you guys this, the novel is published in 1991. It’s set in 1987. I think the movie is specifically set in 1987 too. Maybe Reagan’s speech. That’s how you can date it to when the movie takes place. But it’s kind of interesting that, so they film this movie in 99. There’s only an eight years difference. Do you think that it’s necessary that this is the eighties?

Laci (00:44:33):

I think you had it right with the Reagan part.

Matt (00:44:36):

Well, it’s just like I think when a novel’s only eight years old, you’re probably just said it now. What’s the difference? The world’s not that different. I just

Laci (00:44:44):

Told you Thence, the

Matt (00:44:46):

Reagan thing is, I just said the Reagan so

Laci (00:44:48):

Important. I mean why else’s in the movie that

Matt (00:44:50):

Way. I know. I know. It’s just an interesting choice to decide. We need to make this a period piece.

Craig (00:44:55):

I think it also, the eighties just represents such a time and Reagan specifically such a time of unfettered capitalist business, but these type of assholes, business assholes, just

Laci (00:45:10):

Excess cocaine, just all the indulgence

Craig (00:45:13):

Into its own. So I think that to me, it seems like because it’s not made note of heavily that it’s the eighties, other than the references to the music and Reagan and all that

Laci (00:45:24):

Shoulder

Craig (00:45:25):

Panel, I think it does feel like there’s an element that feels timeless to it. There’s asshole men like this in every society. But yeah, I think that’s what makes it interesting is it does feel very specific to the eighties, but yet not.

Laci (00:45:39):

No, you’re right because when I see big, because men’s hair is kind of classic, right? There’s no traditionally eighties men’s here except for Ron Stash at the restaurant scene and because he’s goth, but when a woman comes in, it’s just kind of jarring except for Jean and except for the prostitute that he actually kind of really clicks with. It’s just, oh, aquanet bangs I didn’t expect. Every now and then I’m reminded it’s the eighties. It doesn’t feel like it all the time.

Hal (00:46:11):

I think there’s two things here. One, like you said, the Reagan of it all. The speech that he’s giving at the end of the film is about the Iran Contra scandal, which is specifically about institutional distrust and the revelation, the 1000th revelation that people in power are self-serving, that elites do what is necessary to protect their own interests while lying. All of that obviously resonates with what’s happening in the movie. The other thing I’ll say is that the end of the nineties, there was a major.com bubble that burst, and so while this movie was in development, it may have just been easier to situate it in terms of the class, the class environment before that happened rather than trying to make it contemporaneous.

Matt (00:47:02):

It’s like how if you make a movie now, you said it in 2019, I just don’t want to touch, I don’t want it to take place during Covid or after Covid. So just 2019. But it’s like if we made a movie now about 2012, the long gone world of 2012 and how differently we dressed, sorry,

Craig (00:47:20):

John Cusack made that movie.

Laci (00:47:22):

Yes he did. My sweet sexy boy. Okay, I have too many boys. I’m collecting them all.

Hal (00:47:27):

You do. I have some boys in this movie. Speaking of boys, one of the thoughts I had as it relates to specifically the Four Men and Luca’s remake, thinking about how many famous people are in this movie and how many men were right at the brink of at their

Laci (00:47:44):

Bubble, really

Hal (00:47:44):

Big of being really big and how we don’t know who that other guy is. That didn’t happen for everyone, but there are quite a few people in here who did. I kind of wonder to what extent Luca’s got some full, he could probably get some big guys in there. I’m

Craig (00:47:59):

Trying to think

Hal (00:48:01):

He’s,

Laci (00:48:01):

He’s scouting some, not yet broken out, but about to break out, get both of the Challenger

Hal (00:48:06):

Guys, guys, Alex Garland war movie that looks horrible and imperialistic. Just get all those guys. This

Craig (00:48:14):

Is Black Hawk down too for me. I’m seeing it.

Matt (00:48:17):

I’ve heard from film critics I trust and I hate Civil War, but I’ve heard from I fucking

Hal (00:48:21):

Love Civil War.

Matt (00:48:22):

You’re an idiot.

Craig (00:48:23):

Film critics. I trust that Civil war. So we can team up. Yeah, because

Laci (00:48:25):

You’re an

Craig (00:48:26):

Idiot.

Hal (00:48:26):

I was on the edge and then I read, there was an Entertainment weekly interview that came out last week, I think between Raymond, who’s the Iraq war vet that co-directed it and Alex Garland and everything they said in it was made me like, no thank you. Everything I thought I drew about this movie, I feel absolutely confirmed and I have zero interest in it.

Laci (00:48:50):

Please note she’s not talking about Civil War, talking about war. I just wanted for the fucking record.

Matt (00:48:55):

Okay. Just a film critic I trust said I was so skeptical, but this thing rules, but Ronald remains to be seen.

Laci (00:49:02):

Well, if you’re an

Matt (00:49:02):

I’ve liked his movies in

Laci (00:49:03):

The past. If an action slut like you, then maybe it’ll just be good for that.

Matt (00:49:05):

That’s

Craig (00:49:06):

What problem. We just talked about this too. I think it’s really hard to make movies about American war, especially after World War ii because where the bad guys in all of them, if they still, that kind of makes all war movies problematic in a way. But occasionally there’s just a banger. I think we just talking about how much Black Hawk Down Rules. I love that movie. I am. It’s really jingoistic and kind of fucked up in propaganda in that sense. But it’s a cool action movie and I’m so, you know what warfare my values mean? Nothing. I’m seeing that shit. No, I know.

Matt (00:49:49):

Just

Laci (00:49:49):

Pirated and then you did nothing wrong, right?

Matt (00:49:52):

Yeah. One of my favorite movies to hesitate to say this is Zero Dark 30, which is

Laci (00:49:58):

Oh, way to go, Matt.

Matt (00:49:59):

Which is like literal CIA propaganda.

Laci (00:50:01):

It gets actual, literal,

Matt (00:50:03):

But it’s like, yeah, but it’s so good though. So I don’t know what to think

Laci (00:50:07):

And I think

Matt (00:50:08):

We should, you can like things that are bad. You can like things that are made by bad people. And

Laci (00:50:12):

Once again, we are stuck for 20 minutes on the fucking title card. Mac,

Matt (00:50:16):

Can

Craig (00:50:17):

We move

Laci (00:50:17):

To scene two? Christ,

Craig (00:50:19):

Can I say though, I’m so sorry to keep you stuck there, but I think it is important to note just over the last 25 years, what is going on exactly with Justin Hairline because

Laci (00:50:29):

Look at that. This has to be a merckin that just happens to be on his head. That’s a vagina wig that this is

Craig (00:50:34):

His hairline because that is insane. He appears that

Laci (00:50:38):

Is the Blackhawk down. That

Craig (00:50:39):

Is something is going on because he’s appeared in things after this and before with a much fuller lusher head of hair. So I don’t know if he’s just a wig boy or if the Leftovers on HBO O. Yeah, I was going to say he has a, he’s a much different hairline than the leftover. Yeah, he’s just investigating. This has been a year long project for my wife and I is because

Laci (00:51:04):

I need a timeline.

Craig (00:51:05):

He pops up of the

Laci (00:51:06):

Hairline.

Craig (00:51:07):

We note the hairline because we’re like, well, okay, because The Leftovers, it was airing at the same time as he had an arc on Parks and Rec and his on parks and rec. His hairline is very much like this, but even receded a little bit more because it’s like 15 years later. But then his hair on the leftovers is very full and lush. So something’s going on here. Is it? We got to get to the bottom of this.

Laci (00:51:28):

You have face and hair blindness.

Matt (00:51:30):

True My love. Because you

Laci (00:51:30):

Don’t know.

Matt (00:51:31):

If you’d asked me, I would say he’s Bald on the Leftovers and the Leftovers is my favorite show. I’ve watched

Laci (00:51:35):

It so many Times’s, both of our favorite shows and

Matt (00:51:37):

Now that you mention him, I’m like, no, I guess he does have hair

Laci (00:51:38):

Be on the lookout for the Load Bearing Beams mini series about The Leftovers. Just saying,

Matt (00:51:43):

Oh yes, I love the leftovers.

Laci (00:51:45):

Me too.

Matt (00:51:46):

Well great. You can be our guest

Laci (00:51:48):

Barrel rules.

Matt (00:51:48):

So what happens in minute two of the movie is

Laci (00:51:50):

This. Ah yes, sorry.

Matt (00:51:53):

They go to a nightclub and it’s no longer accepting drink tickets. And then he does what Craig does to every bartender. He encounters and says, I want to bathe in your blood, you bitch. And she doesn’t appear to

Craig (00:52:04):

Listen. I said to people when it’s loud, I don’t necessarily return it

Laci (00:52:08):

For

Craig (00:52:08):

Bartenders. Anybody can get it.

Laci (00:52:09):

You say, I love lamp or I want to bathe in your blood bitch and all the

Hal (00:52:14):

Go-go dancers have guns.

Laci (00:52:15):

Yes, but they’re squatting a lot. I’m thinking about their thighs the next day, all that squatting, all the getting up and then the going down women as props. Am I right? Alright,

Matt (00:52:29):

So I mean I guess it’s a boring question, but right away the movie’s like, so is he really saying this or

Laci (00:52:36):

Not? No, he’s not saying it.

Matt (00:52:37):

I know. I want to get

Laci (00:52:38):

Everybody, oh no, I’m going to answer every question you’ve got. Rhetorical or not

Matt (00:52:42):

Get everybody’s perspective on what is really happening and that, does it matter if it’s happening or not?

Laci (00:52:47):

Well, he’s an unreliable narrator, so

Craig (00:52:51):

I just take everything that is happening, literally knowing that he’s an unreliable narrator and the story is a hundred percent from him. So I’m taking it all literally in the sense of he’s our point of contact. I guess

Hal (00:53:08):

We got to go with what he’s, they’re violent regardless of what his

Craig (00:53:10):

Behavior. Clearly there’s some shit that he did do in some shit that he didn’t do. But regardless, this is his mindset. So I think it would be hard to parse which of the fucked up things he said were real and which ones were not.

Laci (00:53:27):

Right.

Matt (00:53:28):

Yeah, I guess I kind of think nothing. Well

Laci (00:53:31):

No, because of the part with the man in the alley and the part with the cat. There’s just all these when he’s alone, I don’t know. I think it’s impossible to know

Matt (00:53:42):

Because there’s moments where it’s stage. Nobody’s reacting to him when he says these things. Like the doorman doesn’t notice that he’s dragging a body out of the building.

Laci (00:53:53):

No, that’s not true. That’s just what wealth can get you. When you look perfect like that and you live and you have that suit on, you carry a body out. I think it’s a lot about that, but yeah, but the at TM part, he gets busted by the woman, but then he shoots that woman, but then he probably didn’t kill that woman. That’s when he’s really breaking with it reality. Who knows Matt Minute two. Fuck.

Matt (00:54:14):

Okay, so now it’s the next morning. He takes us through his morning fitness and skincare routine. As I said, that’s the one that I do.

Laci (00:54:21):

I can tell you’re glowing

Hal (00:54:23):

Giving Brian Johnson.

Laci (00:54:25):

Yes, he’s not going to die. This man, that’s his son, that Les Mis poster, that’s his son.

Hal (00:54:31):

He definitely records his nighttime boners.

Laci (00:54:35):

Just you got to go by girth, not length

Matt (00:54:38):

Well, so you can get the data. So you can look back at the end of the year, my yearend boners and see many corresponding factors reading at this time, what was my mindset? Was I exercising regular honey? My IEBs for 2014. Yeah. Year end. I’m just, hey, bad blow the

Craig (00:54:54):

Year in’t matter.

Matt (00:54:57):

You

Craig (00:54:57):

Get a YEB count

Matt (00:54:59):

In the book. It’s super exhausting how many brand names he lists. But that’s also the point. The point and sort of a commentary on, in movies, people are always going into a bar and saying, I’ll have a beer. When in reality they say, I’ll have a Miller Light. So the book’s like What if he actually just names actual brand names. The movie has a lot less of the brand naming, but still just products. Just products. I got nothing but products and I put on an ice mask and then I take off a mask. This whole movie is about the masks we wears.

Laci (00:55:31):

Who else wears masks? Matt

Matt (00:55:33):

Leather face,

Laci (00:55:34):

Sweet babies with autism. True. I’m just saying he is not a neurotypical person and he’s misunderstood. And I will begin my case soon.

Matt (00:55:42):

Okay, so he’s describing all the products he uses, and this 1987, we are now fully the only point of American life is the way we consume, the way we construct an identity is that in the consumer choices we make, and so all there is, and then he gives the speech. There is no Patrick Bateman. It’s just a mask I wear. There’s nothing, there’s an idea of a Patrick Bateman. I simply am not there.

Laci (00:56:09):

He’s just disconnected. He can’t connect. He’s not in the right space for it. They would not understand this in the eighties,

Matt (00:56:15):

What would they not? Do you want to just get into it?

Laci (00:56:17):

No, I don’t.

Matt (00:56:18):

Okay.

Laci (00:56:19):

I don’t even know that I will. I’m so sick of talking about it with you over the last two days. I don’t even like my theory anymore.

Matt (00:56:25):

It’s 1987, it’s Manhattan. He goes into the office listening to music in his headphones and people are talking to him, but he doesn’t hear because he is in his headphones, which I would never do. I would never walk around a public place

Laci (00:56:36):

Autism

Matt (00:56:36):

With my headphones.

Laci (00:56:38):

Oh, not you.

Matt (00:56:38):

I mean, I go to grocery store, but

Laci (00:56:40):

Yeah, and Matt’s lying. Matt.

Matt (00:56:42):

Oh, I can’t go anywhere without

Laci (00:56:44):

Matt Fucks with his headphones. I didn’t want to say anything when you were talking about Leo. I’m kidding. No, I would

Matt (00:56:48):

Never, no, no, no. But almost everything else. Yes,

Laci (00:56:51):

To be fair, it’s me having sex noises in the headphones, but they’re not in real time. They’re just the best. My greatest hits. You don’t want me to disappoint.

Matt (00:57:01):

You’re not going to get better simulating

Laci (00:57:03):

Simulation.

Matt (00:57:05):

Yeah. So yeah, he’s wearing his big headphones. We meet Gene, his assistant played by Chloe s Sini can help me

Laci (00:57:13):

Here. It’s Sini. No one is going to disagree with me.

Craig (00:57:17):

I don’t know. I mean,

Hal (00:57:18):

I was so

Laci (00:57:19):

Confident.

Hal (00:57:20):

The antique of pronunciation.

Craig (00:57:22):

Yeah. You just swallow the last few letters and you say it Rose seven close to

Laci (00:57:28):

He’s on Lithium. You guys,

Matt (00:57:29):

The book and the movie make a big point. Not one second, not one millisecond. Will you see him doing any actual work? His secretary comes to him with all of his appointments and they’re all just his social, his appointments at his health club and his spa and all the dinners and lunches he has to attend. And then once she leaves, he turns on the TV and watches Jeopardy. Oh, before telling her not to wear that outfit again. Wear a dress or a skirt or something. You’re prettier than that. And she says a Thanks Patrick. Oh, Patrick.

Craig (00:57:58):

I think there’s some interesting stuff with her like that character and specifically the reason that he doesn’t kill her later on that, I don’t know. She seems to hold some sort of power over him that I can never quite put my on, but I like it.

Laci (00:58:17):

She’s empathetic. She has not risen to the very top. She is not completely awashed with all this facade, and she’s real and she’s trying to see him. She asks him if he’s okay. She’s the only person in the entire movie that asks him how he is. And that’s what somebody who’s not connecting with, people who feels completely distant and misunderstood needs to hear. And when he interacts with people who are down to earth, that’s when you see his humanity. That’s all he needs. He needs to not have been the son of the man who owns fucking Pearson Pierce.

Matt (00:58:53):

That’s true. Yeah. She’s not trying to get something from him. She’s not trying to one up him or anything.

Laci (00:58:58):

No. She’s just curious about him, asks about him.

Craig (00:59:02):

I will say, and I’m sorry, Laci, this might shoot your theory that he’s a misunderstood little boy down, is that I also think that maybe he is confounded by her because he doesn’t find her sexually attractive, or at least he could. But he’s trying to dominate her early on in the movie by telling her to wear something else or whatever, and later in throughout the movie criticizes her and for things that aren’t necessarily feminine enough or serving him enough. And I think there’s something about the fact that she doesn’t recognize him as the masculine man that he so desperately wants to be is what transfixes him about her. I don’t know.

Laci (00:59:51):

I think she pines over him, and I think he totally knows that from the beginning. I think he knows that she has feelings and a crush on him,

Matt (01:00:00):

But therefore they are for not totally shallow reasons, even though there’s no Patrick Bickman, she seems to really like him as a person.

Laci (01:00:11):

She talks to him like a person, and I feel like he doesn’t interact with anyone in his daily life. I mean, he completely designs his life around never running into anyone beneath him.

Craig (01:00:21):

Crazy. I also think she likes the status of him more than him.

Laci (01:00:24):

Exactly.

Craig (01:00:27):

At the same time, I don’t know if she necessarily, she doesn’t know instinctually what to do to please him, and he, I think gets frustrated by that. But to a degree that I don’t know. There’s a theory that I feel like I’m working out in my head now and it sounds stupid. I have a lot of those.

Matt (01:00:42):

No, no, go for it.

Craig (01:00:44):

But yeah, there’s just something, I don’t know this takeaway. I was really liked the scenes with Chloe seven in this. I just thought she was great, especially the scene with the nail gun really good in that scene.

Matt (01:00:58):

And again, I didn’t finish the book, but Chloe just gives her so much more life than she had on the page. Not that she’s a totally two dimensional character in the book, but just she’s way more fully realized here. But then we meet Reese Witherspoon, who I would’ve paid a billion dollars, was not in this movie, but she’s in this movie as his quote fiance unquote.

Laci (01:01:19):

And she’s way more fricking perfect looking than Courtney. That doesn’t make any sense when he says that. Sorry.

Matt (01:01:25):

Nope. Sorry. I thought you were saying I said that.

Laci (01:01:27):

No, no, no. It’s just that he immediately then says that Courtney’s almost perfect looking and I’m looking at her and I see no difference.

Matt (01:01:33):

Yeah. I am not into Evelyn. She’s like a Reese Witherspoon type.

Laci (01:01:37):

I like, yeah, gRoth.

Matt (01:01:40):

And she keeps buzzing in my ear while I’m trying to listen to my tunes. And she’s talking about our wedding plans.

Hal (01:01:48):

That’s why she’s not the perfect woman, and Courtney is because Courtney is drugged out and will just passively you

Matt (01:01:55):

Go, there you go, whatever. Yeah, no buzz always buzzed, but will not buzz in your ear.

Laci (01:02:00):

Well, because he’s obsessed with having the highest of status symbols and Evelyn is the creme de la creme. Everyone has good things to say about Evelyn and he just wants to fit in. He wants her, but he doesn’t want to marry her. He doesn’t even want to be with her. He just wants to have the status of her. So yeah, she’s perfect.

Matt (01:02:19):

And she doesn’t want him either. She just wants to plan a wedding. She’s super excited about that.

Laci (01:02:24):

Fuck off. What? You don’t know her.

Matt (01:02:27):

Do we have any indication she likes him?

Laci (01:02:29):

We know she likes that hot piece just in Thoreau.

Matt (01:02:32):

Well, I mean, he says later on, you’re just not that important to me. And I get the sense it’s true of her too. They’re not actually,

Laci (01:02:38):

Yeah, she’s having a completely different relationship with him. She’s got pet names for him. She seems to really know him really well in her own mind. She’s always so familiar with him.

Craig (01:02:49):

I said they could both do better,

Laci (01:02:51):

But that’s the thing. They’re in such a small bubble. They really, there’s only so many prestigious people who can get a fricking reservation of Dorsey. Not that he can, but he could be better. He’s close it just like they’ve really boxed themselves in.

Matt (01:03:04):

They could do better for each other.

Laci (01:03:07):

They

Matt (01:03:07):

Could do the work. They really

Laci (01:03:09):

Should.

Craig (01:03:10):

Let’s make better. Hey, let’s talk about this rather than put on Huey Lewis in the news. Let’s talk about this situation. That would be really good. Hey, I’m right here. Yeah.

Matt (01:03:23):

Yeah.

Craig (01:03:24):

Also, we comment on this at the beginning, but that 90 minute David Cronenberg version, Jesus Christ, I would kill for that.

Matt (01:03:32):

I know. So maybe this is a good movie to remake.

Hal (01:03:35):

I just want to say also I had this thought while we’re talking about that, I’m sorry. I know this is 30 minutes in the past, but it’s very funny to me, the idea that he was like, no, we can’t have any restaurant scenes. I love that though, because one of my favorite movies of all time and certainly my favorite Erenberg is dead ringers where there are multiple scenes in fancy

Laci (01:03:56):

Red. That’s true. Agree. Maybe he was just sick of it. He didn’t want to be the restaurant guy.

Craig (01:04:00):

Yeah, he said very pivotal scene in

Laci (01:04:02):

Cur

Hal (01:04:02):

The restaurant that came out in 1988, so he didn’t want to get pigeonholed between,

Matt (01:04:07):

But you’re right. Yes. Six years later, a history of violence, some of the best diner footage you’ll ever see. But Cronenberg was like, what’s going

Laci (01:04:14):

On in between those two fields? He had a bad plate of fish.

Matt (01:04:20):

That’s exactly it. He got a very bad plate

Laci (01:04:22):

Of food. He got a bad plate of food. He got the stomach. Also, he is goings in Canada.

Matt (01:04:27):

Scanner scanners, one of the best mall food courts of all time.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):

True, true.

Matt (01:04:33):

But he literally said, no, it’s boring. Shooting in restaurants and nightclubs is boring,

Laci (01:04:37):

But what’s left? So we’ve got department stores and parks.

Matt (01:04:42):

You’ve got,

Laci (01:04:43):

I’ve listed it all.

Matt (01:04:44):

That’s it. And that medical clinic where the brood lives.

Laci (01:04:48):

Anyway,

Matt (01:04:49):

They arrive at apa and Patrick Bateman says in the narration, he’s like, relief watch is over me in an awesome wave because we have a good table. And so they’re meeting Reese’s Witherspoon’s artist cousin and Justin Thoreau, and then some other people. We meet

Laci (01:05:06):

The same fucking people.

Matt (01:05:07):

Matt Roth as Louis and his fiance Evelyn, who is best friend, no, no, Courtney, who is best friends with Evelyn

Laci (01:05:14):

Fucking each other. Their circle is so goddamn small, never be a debutante or whatever the fuck these are.

Matt (01:05:22):

Whatever. They are

Laci (01:05:23):

A ante.

Matt (01:05:24):

Justice Thoreau starts lecturing. The ladies is like, you don’t think about important things like I do. What’s going on in Sri Lanka? Do you know how many Sikhs the Israelis are killing over there? That

Hal (01:05:34):

Line got a huge pop for me.

Craig (01:05:37):

It’s a really funny line. It’s very Reddit coded too. That guy before Reddit

Hal (01:05:43):

Just smashing shit together.

Craig (01:05:45):

Yes,

Matt (01:05:47):

There were Noss political national, well, I’m sure there were Sikhs, but it was not Sikhs and it was not Israelis. And then so Bateman responds and he’s like, I hardly think the worst problem in the world is Srilanka.

Laci (01:05:58):

Yeah. He says it different.

Matt (01:06:00):

And then he gives this monologue that is basically, I guess it’s a super New York Times editorial. We need to work on lowering the national deficit while also instilling American values while also at the same time protecting our veterans.

Laci (01:06:16):

You’re not going to do the whole thing, are you?

Matt (01:06:17):

I’m not going to do the whole thing. Two things. One, I guess the thing is he’s like, I’m just want to fit in with these guys, but I also want to let them know I’m elevated like 10% above you. I’m a little deeper than all of you that

Laci (01:06:34):

Is fitting in. They’re always fucking dick measuring. And with the cards on the table, how printing business cards is a booming industry in this fucking neighborhood. Always needing to have.

Matt (01:06:48):

I think that he thinks I will distinguish myself by being the guy who cares about current events and important stuff

Laci (01:06:53):

Because he’s the guy that’s got the photographic memory. He can record an entire script in his head because scripting is a part of having autism.

Hal (01:07:03):

I think it’s lampoon, no blush, o oblige attitude where the upper class thinks that they are the smartest and should be the most empowered to solve all of the world’s problems. And that in fact, the burden of solving the world’s problems rests on their shoulders because the proletariat are too fucking stupid to solve the problems themselves. So I think that’s also, regardless of whether or not that’s a deeply held belief that the character is supposed to have, I think that’s what he’s reflecting is this idea of the rich person, which is a very ly New York Times NPR listening idea of like, well, I know the solution to all of these things because I am imbued with some extra special sauce that no one else has.

Matt (01:07:55):

Exactly. Yeah.

Craig (01:07:57):

I also think it’s just the fit in thing. He’s regurgitating what he heard on npr because I think that even when his music reviews, they all sound so rehearsed. And I think there’s a, I don’t know. Can I jump ahead to the Willem Defoe part? So there’s a scene in this that I really think is what Christian Bell does so well is there’s maybe two or three times where the mask starts to slip and he’s falling apart. And I think the real Patrick Bateman kind of comes out a little bit. And there’s one line that always just struck me as funny, but now I feel like maybe this is his real opinion because it’s when Will Defoe, his alibis are kind of crumbling a little bit, and Will Defoe is putting pressure on him and he’s asking him about music and I forget who he says he asked

Laci (01:08:44):

Huey Lewis. Lewis.

Craig (01:08:46):

Oh yeah, yeah. It is Huey Lewis because, and he just had this mechanically says, I don’t like them. They sound too black for me. Which is, I always thought that that was a weird joke. But now I feel like that is Patrick Bateman. I think he at his core probably thinks Huey Lewis is too spicy and he actually hates them. But Huey

Matt (01:09:07):

Lewis,

Craig (01:09:08):

In that moment of panic, he breaks and says his real

Matt (01:09:14):

Betrays who he really is. Yes,

Craig (01:09:16):

Which I like,

Matt (01:09:16):

Which is Huey Lewis is too. Huey Lewis, my dad’s favorite artist.

Craig (01:09:22):

Well, I mean they’re pretty cool.

Matt (01:09:26):

Hey, I love Huey Lewis.

Craig (01:09:28):

I don’t know if you know Matt, but it’s okay to kind of be a dork.

Laci (01:09:32):

It’s tip to be square.

Craig (01:09:32):

Sorry,

Laci (01:09:34):

It’s tip to be square. It’s tip to be square.

Craig (01:09:35):

I feel like I heard that somewhere.

Laci (01:09:36):

No,

Matt (01:09:36):

Yeah,

Laci (01:09:37):

No, you probably haven’t heard it because it’s underground music that you’ve never heard of

Matt (01:09:40):

Before. He says that about, well the first thing he says is I don’t really like singers, which I just don’t like. That

Craig (01:09:46):

Is a really funny way to say that.

Matt (01:09:49):

He goes over to the dry cleaners, he’s trying to get his sheets which are covered in blood. He’s trying to get ’em dry cleaned and the dry cleaners are giving him guff about it and he’s just screaming at them and he is like, I can’t get him to listen to sense. And then this woman walks in who knows him, and he’s like, Hey a lady, you talk some sense in the cleaners. I got to get going. This is

Laci (01:10:07):

Woman stuff,

Matt (01:10:08):

Right? I got a lunch appointment at whatever and I’ll call you. And she’s like, oh, okay. And she seems really, really thrilled.

Laci (01:10:16):

He’s the upper echelon.

Matt (01:10:18):

Then he is on the phone with Courtney. Courtney is the one who is Reese Witherspoon’s best friend and she’s in gauged to the Matt Roth character while he’s talking to her on the phone. Patrick Bateman has a graphic porn playing in the background while reading the back of a VHS box of porn.

Laci (01:10:35):

Just like the Q Anon guy who drives

Matt (01:10:37):

Of Ron

Laci (01:10:38):

Kins. Yeah, just drives with porn. But again, autism, it’s like this need for hyperstimulation. He stimulation seeking,

Speaker 5 (01:10:46):

And

Laci (01:10:46):

This is another example of when I have proof he has autism. He’s trying on the pumpkin idea. Pumpkin, you can just tell, it’s like a kid who’s like, this is something I heard someone say, I like this lady. She’s pumpkin and she does not respond to it. You’re

Matt (01:11:00):

Pumpkin.

Laci (01:11:01):

And it really upsets him because it’s like, fuck. I was trying to think,

Matt (01:11:04):

Felt good about that. I’ll give it a few more tries. Pumpkin, pumpkin. No, I told you not to call me pumpkin.

Laci (01:11:10):

He read it wrong. He read the situation. Wrong story of his, this bitch is going Arcadia, lithium up. So

Matt (01:11:17):

He’s like, no, we’re

Laci (01:11:18):

Going. It’s got arcades and it’s got pizza. I’m telling you, Craig,

Craig (01:11:24):

You

Laci (01:11:24):

Haven’t lived. You haven’t lived.

Craig (01:11:27):

Comment ping pong. I heard you mention Q Andon. If you guys want to talk about that later, we have a

Laci (01:11:31):

Conversation. Go in the basement.

Craig (01:11:32):

I can show you the truth.

Laci (01:11:34):

You can.

Craig (01:11:34):

I would love to go to comic ping

Laci (01:11:36):

Pong.

Matt (01:11:36):

It sounds

Laci (01:11:39):

Like a place we went to. Yeah, it

Craig (01:11:39):

Does. But I can tell you they don’t really have a whole sense of humor about that whole thing

Laci (01:11:43):

Anymore. They don’t think it’s funny when people start showing up

Matt (01:11:46):

The aforementioned dough boys of course did an episode where they reviewed comic ping pong. They reviewed the pizza at comment

Laci (01:11:50):

1. Is it a chain or is it just the one? No,

Matt (01:11:52):

They broke their rule.

Laci (01:11:53):

Okay.

Matt (01:11:54):

So yeah, it’s like we’re going on a date tonight, even though she is sick. But once he says We’re going to,

Laci (01:12:00):

She’s not sick, she’s depressed.

Matt (01:12:02):

I think she has a cold.

Laci (01:12:03):

No, she doesn’t.

Matt (01:12:04):

Okay, whatever.

Laci (01:12:04):

She’s depressed.

Matt (01:12:05):

We’re going to Dorsia is the hot restaurant. Dors. Dorsia, sorry. And he’s like, yeah, I got a reservation. She’s like, really? That’s so hard to get. He’s like, yeah, no problem. He hangs up and instantly calls. He like, can I have a reservation to Dorsia? And they just laugh

Laci (01:12:19):

At him. That’s how he experiences interactions all the time. That’s another me. This

Matt (01:12:23):

Is why I don’t make phone calls. I know,

Laci (01:12:26):

But it’s a social cue thing.

Craig (01:12:28):

That is how I think everybody is going to be at me on the phone when I don’t know something and have to call anywhere. I do feel that intense feeling immediately.

Matt (01:12:37):

Absolutely. I start every phone call to a stranger where I have to ask something. I’m apologizing. I am over explaining.

Laci (01:12:44):

Autism is social anxiety, not knowing the rules

Matt (01:12:49):

In the car on the way Courtney is, she is drunkenly slash drug induced. Talking about her day. She’s like, I went to the pottery bar

Laci (01:12:58):

Elizabeth den. It was very relaxing

Matt (01:13:01):

Before finally saying, I just want a child, just two perfect children.

Laci (01:13:06):

She’s deeply depressed and she’s engaged to a man who’s closeted her life. Fucking sucks.

Matt (01:13:12):

Yes,

Laci (01:13:12):

She is. What all the women have even less to do in this fucking society. They can’t be like business career people. That’s not sexy. That doesn’t get you to the top. It’s even more empty for them. Like

Craig (01:13:22):

The collateral damage of the men that we see in the, well actually all the women in the movie are the collateral damage of the men we see. But Courtney is the one that we spend the most time with. And so she’s got kind of the saddest arc.

Matt (01:13:36):

Yes. She wakes up and he’s like, yeah, we’re totally at Dorsia. She’s like, oh, okay. And then he pulls up the menu and it says, Barad tells her what she’s going to order and regurgitates a New York magazine restaurant review. Everything is just, I read this in a thing and now I will perfectly quote it. Okay, so we’re at the office and Jared Leto as this Paul Allen character. We keep hearing about CS Bateman and he is like, oh, hello. And Bateman on the voiceover explains that he has been mistaken for Marcus, which makes sense. They look exactly alike. They do the same job and go to the same barber and wear the same clothes. But instead of correcting him, he decides he’s going to go along with it for some reason. And Jared Leto gives his business card to Justin Throw and then we get the famous scene of them all just showing their business cards to each other. And I get that. The joke is that they all look the same. Are we supposed to, what do you think about this? How are we supposed to appreciate that there are differences in the cards?

Hal (01:14:40):

Yeah. Controversial opinion. Patrick Bateman’s card is best because of the weight and color of the paper.

Matt (01:14:47):

Damn. I should have gotten the screenshot of all of the cards or gotten all the other

Hal (01:14:51):

Cards. Have the paper has a texture to the card stock. I just think his looks best

Matt (01:14:58):

Because we both, Laci and I both do graphic design and I’ve designed so many business cards and I like that. Laci, do you have an opinion on who has the best business card? No.

Laci (01:15:10):

As a graphic designer,

Matt (01:15:11):

Yes.

Laci (01:15:12):

I think all of the font is too close to the edges. None of them have it. Look at the bottom row,

Matt (01:15:16):

They’re all designed the same. They’re just

Laci (01:15:18):

All in different, and the bottom row margin is atrocious. So they all have the wrong, all the same mistakes. The texture is the best on the final card. You see

Matt (01:15:28):

How says that Patrick has the best business card?

Laci (01:15:31):

No, he doesn’t. The all caps last name is fucking crazy. It looks like Batman. So calling is shot. It’s

Hal (01:15:39):

Very European first of all. Yes. That’s how Europeans write. Don’t

Speaker 5 (01:15:45):

Particularly,

Hal (01:15:46):

Particularly French people don’t write their last name is in all capital,

Matt (01:15:50):

All caps. I didn’t know that. Oh, these frigging French people with their all caps last names and their three hour work days. Got to talk some sense into them. So Craig, do you have an opinion about the business cards? Who has the best business card?

Craig (01:16:06):

Oh, the one that’s got that looks like it’s threaded.

Hal (01:16:13):

Yep. It was Paul Allen’s. I don’t like.

Craig (01:16:16):

You didn’t like that. That one.

Hal (01:16:17):

Yeah. I don’t care for the texture of the paper.

Craig (01:16:19):

I will tell you in my memory this Who’s got the little higher end? I think we know who would get the reservation at Dorsia is all I’m saying.

Hal (01:16:28):

Yeah.

Craig (01:16:29):

In my

Matt (01:16:30):

Memory, this was them. We can win the big dinner reservation contest. Yeah, we can do it. Maybe a bonus episode. We, we all try to get a reservation at a restaurant tonight. In my memory, this was them all printing their own business cards on spec for a job that they are all trying to get. But now I realize the joke is that they’re all vice presidents. There’s like 35 vice presidents in this company.

Laci (01:16:55):

Yeah, yeah. They’re interchangeable.

Matt (01:16:57):

And in my experience, you’re not allowed to just go print your own business card on whatever card stock you want. They

Laci (01:17:04):

Want that to be uniform.

Matt (01:17:06):

You never tried. They want that to be uniform.

Craig (01:17:07):

I’ve never had a business. No, that’s not true. I did have a business card. I just never used them. One time just

Hal (01:17:11):

In teacher I have, but the institution I work for keeps printing me new business cards. The timing of it is horrible. They keep printing them and then promoting me three months later, which that’s a nice problem, great problem to have way that doesn’t keep happening in short order, but it does create a situation where I’m like, because I am sustainability oriented,

Laci (01:17:35):

This is scratching

Hal (01:17:36):

Out the, we’re going to the university did an entire new rebranding at the end of last year and gave everybody new business cards and it was a big deal. They did it for the entire university at one time, so it was a lot of money. And then I was promoted in January and I’m like, well,

Laci (01:17:57):

These are now tiny thank you cards. Flip it over. Thank you for

Matt (01:18:02):

They make excellent bookmarks.

Laci (01:18:04):

That’s

Matt (01:18:04):

Mainly what I’ve used all of my business

Laci (01:18:06):

Cards for. Your business cards are in all the books.

Matt (01:18:08):

They are.

Craig (01:18:09):

Yeah. I always thought it would be funny to carry business cards, but just when you meet people that just says Just my name with nothing on it and no context. I just thought it’s fun to carry a business card and I never have had reason to but

Hal (01:18:22):

At always want ask for that

Craig (01:18:24):

Dude.

Hal (01:18:25):

Can I

Craig (01:18:25):

Just hate that text you? Yeah. You ain’t got a phone. What happened to that

Laci (01:18:29):

QR code tattoo right

Matt (01:18:31):

Here? If you had a business card that was just your name, people would assume you’re the biggest fucking deal in the universe.

Laci (01:18:36):

That’s like the wolf and fricking pulp fiction. Pul fiction. Just as the wolf.

Hal (01:18:41):

I would assume that you’re a drug dealer, to be honest. That’s the vibe it gives off.

Craig (01:18:46):

I

Laci (01:18:46):

Just have to use numerology to figure out how your name is actually your number.

Craig (01:18:50):

Just Craig. Boom. Craig

Laci (01:18:52):

Boom.

Matt (01:18:53):

So Patrick, he’s very

Laci (01:18:55):

Patrick Batman.

Matt (01:18:56):

Patrick Batman is very depressed at seeing business cards that are superior to his own. And so he yells at poor Matt Roth and on the way home he’s despondent over this business card news and he runs into a homeless man played by Reggie Kathy, and he taunts him and acts like he’s going to give him some money, but he just lectures him. He is like, if you’re so hungry, why don’t you get a job?

Craig (01:19:17):

I can’t watch this scene.

Laci (01:19:19):

I can’t

Matt (01:19:19):

So fucking,

Laci (01:19:20):

I can’t watch

Craig (01:19:21):

It. This is the only scene where when it came on, I was like, Nope, I don’t want to watch this. I fast forward through that one he

Laci (01:19:25):

Can’t

Matt (01:19:25):

Handle and just Don Trump Jr. Has done this 50 times, is lectured somebody like this? I lost my job. He’s like, who? What insider trading.

Laci (01:19:39):

Matt, you skip the scene. Why don’t we skip it? Oh, okay. Why are you going to verbatim say it to him?

Craig (01:19:44):

No, I’m not saying that. No, I’ve seen it a bunch. I just mean it’s the one that’s the most

Matt (01:19:48):

Absolutely.

Craig (01:19:49):

And it is definitely rings the most true of assholes that

Laci (01:19:54):

Yeah,

Craig (01:19:55):

Just don’t give a shit and see the people below them as their play things or whatever. It’s just the cruelty of it is just

Hal (01:20:03):

The line. I would just like to raise one of the lines he says in it because I think it gets to the core of the scene, which he says, I don’t have anything in common with you.

Speaker 5 (01:20:12):

Yeah. Yeah,

Laci (01:20:13):

Steven. That’s why I think, okay, and this person obviously has something going on. You could read it as autism. This person just is suffering from it in a much more outward way. They don’t have money. They’re a person of color. And I think of it as Patrick Bateman talking to himself and trying to convince himself that he has nothing in common with this person when I feel he feels just as excluded in ad drift as this person does.

Matt (01:20:39):

Oh, okay. Yes, yes. Different set of circumstances presented before me. I would be in this exact

Laci (01:20:46):

Same situation. Well, I think for him, I think he’s trying to convince himself he has nothing in common with him when he might as well just be in an alley.

Craig (01:20:52):

I think it’s also maybe a juxtaposition of this guy, this person experiencing homelessness that’s been isolated from society with the juxtaposition of Patrick who’s sees himself as the paradigm of society, but in reality has isolated himself from everyone else.

Laci (01:21:11):

Right. Well, and in fact, born into a place where he was always going to be isolated.

Craig (01:21:16):

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Matt (01:21:19):

And then making the decision to be as destructive to society as he possibly can be. And then in the end of the movie learning, there will be no consequences for it.

Laci (01:21:28):

It sucks to figure out you were born on the finish line. What is there to do? You can’t even get in trouble. That’s not fucking fun.

Matt (01:21:34):

I love the last line of the movie. I feel like it’s an underrated last line of the movie. This confession has meant nothing or

Speaker 5 (01:21:41):

Oh yeah.

Matt (01:21:42):

Something very similar to that. Now we have the missile tail party. What a screenshot.

Speaker 5 (01:21:48):

It’s

Matt (01:21:48):

Perfect. Love it. Yeah. It’s Evelyn’s Christmas party. She’s carrying a Christmas pig named Snowball. And Patrick is just disgusted by it. And this is where Patrick talks to Paul Allen and he talks to Jared Leto and lets Jared Leto continue to think that he is this thing that occurs to the movie is people not knowing who Patrick Bateman actually is getting it mistaken for other people. But Bateman, he likes that. So he’s like, yes, we should have dinner. It’s like, and will you be bringing Cecilia? Oh, Cecilia. We’ll see about that. They have their dinner, they meet at this sort of Louisiana themed family restaurant,

Laci (01:22:24):

A place where they will not be seen

Matt (01:22:25):

Right by anybody they know. And Paul Ellen is just so disgusted to be there. This place is so empty here. But they start talking and Bateman Bateman asks Paul, how’d you get the Fisher account? And he says, well, I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you. And he starts ge falling. So I think Paul is is the empty shell of a person that Patrick is trying to be.

Laci (01:22:49):

Yes. This

Matt (01:22:50):

Is like the model. This is

Laci (01:22:50):

A successful shell

Matt (01:22:52):

Of what I am trying to recreate with Patrick Bateman, the character.

Craig (01:22:56):

Yeah. Paul’s just Patrick Bateman without the homicide.

(01:23:00):

But the same thing. I also, I think I, Mary Heron is really good at this movie, and I just like when movies do this that I feel like so often movies forget that comedy is not just the spoken words, but you can use the camera in the framing and the editing and this movie does that really well. But the funniest laugh out loud part I have every time is when they’re in the restaurant and it’s seeming like, oh, he’s going to kill Jared Leto, isn’t he? And Jared Leto is so oblivious to it and then a hard cut to him on the chair with all the newspaper, the Dexter arrangement. He hasn’t figured it out yet. And goddammit, that one gets me every time. And I

Laci (01:23:41):

Always, this whole scene, it’s all very, oh God, damnit Reservoir Dogs, the dancing with the

Craig (01:23:48):

Oh yeah,

Matt (01:23:49):

It really is. Yeah. But I always think, I don’t like Jared Leto and then I remember. No, he’s, if he’s a piece of shit, he’s an shit asshole. Yeah, he’s wonderful. I love him in his few scenes here. But

Craig (01:24:01):

I mean, I don’t like him as a person in general, I feel like, and most times as an actor, but I do think he’s pretty good in this.

Matt (01:24:09):

Right? People are excited about the New Tron movie and I’m like, but Jared Lotto,

Laci (01:24:13):

He seems like Pussy Posse

Craig (01:24:14):

Material better than a Tron movie. Wait, there’s a new Tron movie and Jared Leonard, you

Matt (01:24:17):

Don’t know about the New Tron

Laci (01:24:19):

Movie. Oh, Matt loves to scoop people. He just scooped you a big one.

Matt (01:24:22):

Why? It’s

Laci (01:24:22):

Called, that’s Matt favorite.

Matt (01:24:23):

It’s called Tron Aries and it stars Jared Leto. So that’s how you know you shouldn’t be that excited.

Laci (01:24:29):

Wait, when are they going to have it come out? February.

Matt (01:24:33):

Is that Aries?

Laci (01:24:34):

What? No, just because it’s like a dump month.

Matt (01:24:38):

Oh,

Laci (01:24:38):

It’s taken a big year.

Matt (01:24:39):

Shit. Now they feel good about it. For whatever

Laci (01:24:40):

Reason. Aries is April. Well, I mean,

Hal (01:24:44):

It’s late March, early April.

Laci (01:24:45):

Right? All of the signs straddle.

Craig (01:24:49):

That’s good.

Laci (01:24:49):

Idiot. That’s how you have a rising you on. I trust

Craig (01:24:51):

You on

Laci (01:24:51):

That. Don’t who else

Craig (01:24:52):

Is in that movie that Jared Let is going to?

Laci (01:24:54):

It’s him. It’s a one man show and that’s it.

Matt (01:24:57):

They got the Jeff Bridges doing the legacy sequel character. Like I’m from the first movie and here I am to tell you something.

Craig (01:25:03):

All right. Wow.

Matt (01:25:04):

I don’t know. Anyway, Paul is getting steadily more drunk as Patrick is not. And when he says, Hey, you know that loser Patrick Bateman. So we start to get the sense everybody thinks Patrick Bateman’s a dork and a loser and an inept piece of shit. We cut then that great cut to Patrick’s apartment with the newspaper laid out on the floor, all the furniture covered in

Laci (01:25:29):

The style section. I just want to point out that it’s specifically the style. He even gave him the bougie side up to the man who’s about about to kill.

Matt (01:25:36):

Gotcha. And he starts giving him the monologue, the music monologue. And I think this is, if your entire life is just consumption, it’s just my relationship to consumer products. It’s like, well, yeah, CDs, you purchase a cd, that’s a product, but you’re consuming the art of Huey Lewis in the news. But his relationship to it is just, I read a review in Rolling Stone and now I shall regurgitate it. The most banal analysis is like they really came into their own commercially and creatively and as Hip to Be Square comes on, Jared Leto looks at him and he’s like, is that a raincoat? And he’s like, yes, it is Alan. And then starts ax the shit out of him while shouting, try getting a reservation at Dorsia. Now you stupid bastard.

(01:26:23):

And then he is dragging the body out of the building and either does or does not get noticed by the doorman at the bottom of the apartment and he’s loading the body into the trunk of the car when his friend Lewis comes up and he’s like, Hey, what are you doing there, Patrick? And he’s like, oh, nothing. And he is like, wait a minute. What’s that you’ve got there? That’s a beautiful bag. Wo. And then Patrick goes to Paul’s apartment and he’s like, there is a moment of sheer panic when I realized Paul’s apartment love overlooks the park. It’s obviously more expensive than mine. So he packs Paul’s suitcase with clothes, leaves an outgoing message on the machine that ends by saying, ASTA baby, even though Terminator two won’t come out for four years,

Laci (01:27:03):

However he’s

Matt (01:27:04):

Cultured. However, in that movie they make it sound like AST Lata baby is a thing people are saying. So maybe,

Laci (01:27:10):

Maybe, maybe you weren’t there. I

Craig (01:27:12):

Love that voicemail that he does. Yeah, my king that’s, sorry, I just saw who’s on the screen. Well,

Matt (01:27:18):

He’s looking at Willam

Craig (01:27:19):

Defoe

Laci (01:27:20):

The most beautiful face in cinema. I can see him. Oh, you’re not talking to me. I’m talking to the people listening. I always forget,

Craig (01:27:25):

I love Willam Defoe so much. I

Laci (01:27:27):

Do too.

Craig (01:27:28):

I always jokingly say the greatest working actor, but I think I believe that he might be my favorite. He is so good in everything. Even the rare shit movie that he’s in, he elevates.

Matt (01:27:40):

I love him. It’s a great choice. And I think he’s literally only in two, maybe three scenes of this movie.

Laci (01:27:48):

He’s like Gene Hackman that way,

Craig (01:27:50):

Two in the office and in the diner

Laci (01:27:52):

He is. Gene Hackman can also just add just gravitas to anything he does. So

Matt (01:27:58):

Yeah, he’s the Gene Hackman who’s still alive. I’d say Ed Harris is the Gene Hackman who’s still alive.

Laci (01:28:03):

Okay, I’ll accept.

Matt (01:28:03):

But we’ll put Willam Defoe. Willam Defoe is a little weirder to be in that category,

Laci (01:28:06):

But Willam Defoe is also a fucking delight in a sweetheart. So you can’t put him in the crank category at

Matt (01:28:12):

All. That’s true. Yeah. He’s not often cranky.

Laci (01:28:14):

He’s not a No, I mean, in real life. Not a crank.

Matt (01:28:16):

Yeah.

Laci (01:28:16):

Not hard to work with. Okay.

Matt (01:28:17):

He plays this private investigator who was hired by Jared, let’s fiance to track him down or whatever, and he goes to Bateman’s office, starts talking to him, and then as Craig said, this is where these very basic questions are causing Bateman’s cool mask to slip. And he’s kind of stumbling around

Laci (01:28:38):

And it gives the effect of what the actual mask in the very beginning has. He isn’t just sweating on his forehead, the movie’s very specifically making his tire face glisten as though it is wearing that mask again.

Craig (01:28:49):

Yeah. Every time will Defoe shows up, his face gets sweatier and more oily.

Laci (01:28:55):

Yes.

Craig (01:28:58):

I think Will Defoe is incredible in this movie. A really, he carries the weight of the, is this real or not? I think because he plays it on such a razor’s edge of, I still don’t know. Wait, does the Willem Defoe character really not suspect Patrick Bateman or have those been coincidental jokes? And Willem Defoe, you keep thinking he’s going to wink and be like, yeah, I know I’m asking a pointed question here. And then he pulls back and he’s just constantly walking that line that is like, those scenes are fucking great because he’s so good at that.

Laci (01:29:34):

Right. We will never really know was he ever in trouble?

Matt (01:29:39):

Because what a good detective, a good interrogator would do is make you try to get your guard down by making you think, yeah, this is just some guy, he just disappeared. I just need to ask you

Laci (01:29:48):

Some questions. Well also, does he exist at all? Because in this scenario, I mean, Paul Allen didn’t disappear. He just went to

Matt (01:29:54):

London. Right? Right.

Laci (01:29:57):

For real.

Matt (01:29:57):

So what Mary Herron told him was, well, did multiple takes in one take. You believe you suspect Bateman in the next take. You don’t. And then in the final edit, she would alternate between takes. So you’re literally seeing Defoe playing him as both suspecting Bateman and not suspecting

Speaker 5 (01:30:13):

Bateman. Yeah.

Laci (01:30:14):

Never seemed Defoe acting like that except for in Green Lantern. Green Lantern. Isn’t he playing to different kinds of people? Spider Wait, green Lantern, Spider-Man. What am I thinking of? Spider Green, goblin and Spiderman go. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I did a dyslexia. Thank you for decoding. Yes,

Craig (01:30:33):

He’s talking. I got excited. At the same time,

Hal (01:30:35):

I do think his performance in this is pretty close to his performance as Green Goblin. To be honest.

Craig (01:30:42):

Harry Osborne

Hal (01:30:43):

More than

Craig (01:30:44):

Osborne.

Hal (01:30:44):

Right.

Laci (01:30:45):

When he is talking in the mirror, his portrayal is pretty

Hal (01:30:49):

Similar. A

Craig (01:30:49):

Little bit. Yeah. He’s really good at playing that guy on the edge of

Hal (01:30:56):

Well, it has that kind of professionalism the way he talks. And Enunciates is similar between the roles and they’re not really far apart in time either.

Matt (01:31:09):

Back to back. Yeah. When’s the last time you saw Paul Allen? So Patrick is at his home doing his exercises in front of the tv watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre and this movie, when I saw that, I was like, I wonder if that’s an intentional reference to another horror movie. And then later when Bateman is chasing the lady with the chainsaw and going, ah, it’s like maybe it isn’t. I connected those dots successfully in my head. So he picks up a sex worker on the side of the road, says, you are Christie. I shall call you Christie and you shall call me Paul.

Laci (01:31:45):

He loves a blonde with bangs. Those two blondes with bangs are the two that see him in a way. I don’t think he wanted to kill that sex worker. You will notice there are multiple moments where she is looking at him the way that Jean does, just trying to figure him out.

Matt (01:32:01):

And she’s the only other character who the movie will temporarily take her perspective.

Laci (01:32:05):

Yes, she’s stopping. She’s not on drugs, she’s not go, go, go. She’s just a working person and she takes a beat to just kind of absorb what’s everyone else is so out of it. Her and Jean are in it in a way, the rest of the people and Kimball. But Evt seems in a fantasy sometimes too. These

Matt (01:32:26):

Sort of outsiders. Like I’m trying to assess the situation and calculate what’s really going on here. Am I in danger or not? Bateman calls and escort service and asks for someone who does couples and he orders a blonde. And then when he sees her, he is like, not quite blonde, are you a more dirty blonde,

Hal (01:32:43):

Strawberry blonde, strawberry? It’s not dirty. Crazy is this,

Matt (01:32:47):

He sits them both down in the apartment and he is like, well, don’t you want to know what I do? And they’re like, no, not really. Well, I work on Wall Street Pierce, Pearson Pierce. You ever heard of it? No. No. And he’s like, well, fuck. So he turns on, Phil Collins starts lecturing about Genesis and Phil Collins lectures about the lyrical craftsmanship as he takes out his video camera and starts filming them and they’re having sex and he is looking at himself in the mirror and posing and doing flexing and stuff as UD plays. And then they all fall asleep. But Patrick wakes up and he’s like, I forgot to do my thing with my clothes hanger and my other tools.

Laci (01:33:25):

I forgot to torture them. We got so sleepy

Matt (01:33:27):

Sometimes you forget.

Laci (01:33:28):

Yeah.

Matt (01:33:29):

So it cuts to them leaving the apartment with the visible marks on them and they just grabbed their money and run

Craig (01:33:35):

Away and cool Distress too. I forgot her name, but yeah. Very, very visibly distressed. And she’s so tragic too. She is clearly one of the only ones that can in the movie who experiences him and can vocalize what kind of a person he is. She comes and he’s aware that she’s down and out or whatever and coaxes her back. Yeah. So sad.

Matt (01:34:01):

Yeah. He meets up with the guys at the cigar club or whatever it is, whatever, wherever they go where they just smoke, go smoke clubs.

Craig (01:34:10):

Ji don’t act like you don’t know where us fellas go when the ladies aren’t around.

Matt (01:34:13):

We love to talk about the game, the big game that’s on the tv.

Hal (01:34:18):

Oh, I thought you meant the game. Only women have personalities, lines

Matt (01:34:24):

Only me and Craig were just talking about that earlier.

Laci (01:34:27):

The heads on the sticks.

Craig (01:34:30):

You went to a restaurant that’s just called Leather. Leather, our cigars.

Hal (01:34:36):

That’s a gay bar, honey.

Craig (01:34:38):

Yes. Yeah, that would be a different place.

Matt (01:34:41):

Yeah, they do. The thing about how there’s, there’s no women, only ugly women have good personalities. And Patrick’s like, yeah, I totally know what you’re talking about. It’s like how Ed Geen once said, whenever I see a pretty lady on the side of the road, I either want to take her to the malt shop or I want to decapitate and put our head on a stick. And they just look at him as SC with the book because the book is told in first person, you don’t get to know things. Like they looked at me weird and everything I said was hidden. They loved everything. I had them in the palm of my hands.

Craig (01:35:12):

I love that moment. So as a man you are in sometimes going to be in groups of other men that think they’re in a space where they’re like, let me just talk like an asshole because there’s only men around. And then that kind of talk leads to someone being like, well, oh, we’re talking like this. Let me go ahead and really pop off. And then, yeah, that is where this kind of talk leads you a stupid

Laci (01:35:36):

Asshole. And that’s exactly what I said to Matt.

Craig (01:35:39):

He’s

Laci (01:35:39):

Doing the rules then

Craig (01:35:40):

All be like, oh shit bro. We were just kind of doing guy talk. What the hell, man? I’ve been a part of that so many times. Watch that happen where bros are bro. And then one bro is taking it a little too hard

Matt (01:35:53):

And everybody else just says, bro,

Laci (01:35:54):

Well is the logical conclude. This is the result of objectifying women this way. Right? They’re just taking it all the way.

Matt (01:36:02):

Right. And you’re be like, what’s different about what I said said, let to the end. What’s the big harm in what I said? How’s that any difference from what you guys were saying?

Laci (01:36:09):

You’re making it real.

Matt (01:36:10):

And they’re like, you just know man. You just know.

Laci (01:36:13):

Yeah. But someone like Patrick just doesn’t know

Matt (01:36:16):

He’s

Laci (01:36:16):

Following the rules.

Matt (01:36:18):

I was taken out to lunch by some old school New Orleans attorneys to one of these French Quarter restaurants and this guy, this 70-year-old John Goodman was playing them. He was playing, fuck John Candy from JFK. If you remember him in that movie. That was the kind of lawyer I was going to lunch with John

Craig (01:36:39):

Candy’s in

Matt (01:36:40):

JFK.

Laci (01:36:41):

Yeah. He’s like the big lawyer.

Matt (01:36:43):

Yeah. He’s like, I’ll say, sir, no, Kevin Cos no, you but not look into that JFK thing. Now if

Speaker 6 (01:36:51):

I answer that question, you keep asking, if I give you the name of the big enchilada, then it’s Bonvoy dino. I mean like TI mean like a bullet my head. You dig your mouse fighting a gorilla.

Matt (01:37:06):

Canada is dead me. And then one of them takes out his cell phones and just has a naked lady on it and just hands it over to me and just like, huh, huh. Oh. And I’m like 24. I’m like, yes sir. There you go. That sure is some tits. Capital knockers. Capital knockers.

Craig (01:37:25):

That’s insane behavior. That’s insane behavior.

Matt (01:37:28):

This was just guys being guys.

Craig (01:37:32):

The fuck, I would’ve so many questions for him.

Laci (01:37:35):

This your daughter. Why are you showing right where she trafficked?

Matt (01:37:40):

This was my boss’s, my boss on the ride over was like, this is my mentor. He taught me everything. I know

Laci (01:37:45):

Jesus. Jesus Christ. That’s perfect.

Matt (01:37:46):

Want you to pay attention to him.

Laci (01:37:48):

And this is the worst boss you’ve ever had. I’m,

Craig (01:37:50):

You want to know what it takes to be a man and succeed in this business? You better listen to him.

Laci (01:37:55):

You collect

Craig (01:37:56):

Pussy. Look at this picture. Yeah, that’s what it was. You need a Jo buddy. Just the complete pervert as your mentor.

Matt (01:38:03):

At least that would’ve been something. This was just here. Look at it. What

Laci (01:38:07):

Do you want me to do with confirm? Confirm you like, right. What were you supposed to say? What did you say?

Matt (01:38:13):

I was like capital knocker, sir. Oh, you said it. I have no idea. I have no idea. I think I passed the phone. Oh, you take a look now.

Craig (01:38:20):

Oh no, it’s your turn. We’ll pass it around. Alright, so then pass me on this game next time, please.

Matt (01:38:27):

So Lewis arrives and shows his new business card and it blows everybody away. And Patrick has just devastated. And Lewis goes to the bathroom. Patrick follows him in a rage. He’s going to kill him at this point. The score now sounds so much like Bernard Harmon’s psycho score and it will recur throughout the rest of the movie. Patrick has his leather gloves on and he’s about to choke Lewis’ neck. But Lewis turns around and kisses his hand and he is like, oh yes, I’ve always wanted, oh, Patrick, I’ve always been hoping you would do this. And Patrick goes and washes his gloves under the water and he runs away and loses, where are you going? And he says, I’ve got to return some videotapes.

Laci (01:39:06):

That’s time and time again.

Hal (01:39:07):

I love the recurrent excuse me too, man. All the time.

Matt (01:39:11):

Hell yeah. I can’t. I still have to.

Hal (01:39:13):

I got to go return video tape.

Matt (01:39:15):

I still got some, got to find the one blockbuster.

Craig (01:39:19):

This is kind of a turning point in the movie. I think so much of who he is relies on what he perceives his own masculinity as. And then the second Lewis tries to come onto him or mistakes. It is everything he thought he was projecting. He’s like, oh, I’m not doing this right. I’ve clearly put off some wrong signal. And that’s kind of the point where shit starts falling apart for him, I feel like.

Hal (01:39:47):

Oh,

Speaker 5 (01:39:47):

Okay. Yeah.

Hal (01:39:48):

I think this is also a part of the movie where knowing that Mary Herron is a lesbian is important to decoding what’s going on where it’s like Louis, also, this is a framework of masculinity where touch between men can be violent or homosocial and they may reflect, they may express themselves the same way.

Craig (01:40:13):

And there’s very little in between as far as male affection. Yeah,

Matt (01:40:17):

That’s interesting. Yeah. Puts the hands on him and to Matt Roth instantly it’s like, yes,

Laci (01:40:22):

You’re touching me. Is he there for sex? What? I’ve always to kill me, right? Is this kill or sex? Well, it’s in a men’s bathroom. It’s sex.

Matt (01:40:29):

So next day he’s at work, busy at work doing the cRothword and Chloe Vina comes in and she’s like, Hey boss, you need some help with the cRothword puzzle? He is like, no, I think I’ve got it. I’m just writing bones over

Laci (01:40:39):

The and over. What the fuck is a bounced bo meat meats, meaty meat

Matt (01:40:45):

Bone. It’s just his bones in Boni. And so he asked her a jean, would you like to come to dinner tonight? And she’s been forever for him to ask this. And so he does the absolute asshole thing of saying, pick where you want us to go to dinner and pick. Right? And she just stands there. She says Dorsia, and he calls and pretends to get a reservation.

Laci (01:41:06):

Don’t you see though, in this moment he’s let down, he thinks of her as a real person. He’s looking to be with a real person. So yeah, he’s putting on his heirs. He doesn’t know how not to, but then she picks the one place he can’t get into. And to him he’s like, well, I was even fucking wrong about you. You’re like everyone else.

Matt (01:41:23):

She’s like, yeah, but I listen to you all the time. You know the good restaurants, that’s where you like to go

Laci (01:41:27):

Know. I know. That’s why Matt. But for him,

Matt (01:41:30):

Yes.

Laci (01:41:31):

Okay,

Matt (01:41:31):

But they’re just not understanding each other. No, I was hoping you’d say ihop. I don’t know. He calls pretends that he gets a reservation, a table, A table for two at nine. Great, see you there. And hangs up. And she’s like, you didn’t even leave your name.

Laci (01:41:49):

They know me.

Matt (01:41:51):

So she comes to his apartment and he’s like, would you like some sorbet?

Laci (01:41:55):

And he goes, I won’t be having you fed ass. Right.

Matt (01:41:58):

Goes and gets him from the freezer where we see that there’s a decapitated head in the freezer. He goes and asks her, what do you want to do with your life? Just briefly summarized

Laci (01:42:09):

Boni,

Matt (01:42:10):

Which is something my dad will often, at the end of something he says to me or say to anybody, will say, summarize quickly. So she’s like, well, I don’t know. I was always hoping to work with kids, but I don’t even know. Yeah. So yeah. Do you have a boyfriend? No. Are you seeing anyone? No, not really, but so doesn’t she know he is Reese Witherspoon? What’s going on with? I don’t know. It’s hard to track these personal lives. And

Laci (01:42:33):

That’s the

Matt (01:42:34):

Point, the way they’re all entangled.

Laci (01:42:35):

She can tell that it’s all a facade that he is going through the motions of being with her. But is he with her?

Matt (01:42:43):

He says

Laci (01:42:43):

She sees him. Matt,

Matt (01:42:45):

That’s the problem.

Laci (01:42:46):

I’m sorry.

Matt (01:42:47):

He says, did you know Ted Bundy’s first dog was a collie named Lassie? And she says, who’s Ted Bundy? And he’s like,

Laci (01:42:53):

Vale,

Matt (01:42:54):

Nevermind. Like the Charlie Brown played music plays as he walks

Laci (01:42:58):

Away. He thought you were mine.

Matt (01:43:00):

So he’s about to shoot her in the back of the head with that nail gun. And then the phone rings and we split a spoon called like, hello my darling, you’re my baby boy. And I’ll, I’ll leave a message with Jean, your secretary about this too tomorrow. But we’re having dinner with the Taylors.

Laci (01:43:14):

But see, she’s not mad. Jean is different from everyone else. This would’ve been a reason for a big old scene. But she just gets it. And she’s patient and she’s even still interested and that’s why she gets his pardon?

Matt (01:43:28):

She asked, do you want me to go?

Hal (01:43:31):

Her boss asked her on a date, she has no power.

Craig (01:43:33):

Yeah. That’s how I read it too, is that she just has no, at this point, she’s like maybe was intrigued by him at the beginning, but now is almost scared of him and feels like she doesn’t have anything else because she doesn’t, I feel like once they’re in the apartment, she’s not very flirty anymore.

Laci (01:43:50):

She does say still hoping. Yeah. She’s still kind of toying with the idea of I should go. Oh, but I shouldn’t. No, I think she’s into it from the very to

Matt (01:43:59):

The last minute. She says, I do tend to get involved with other,

Laci (01:44:01):

With unavailable guy. Yeah. I

Matt (01:44:03):

Think she does like him.

Laci (01:44:04):

It’s what she wanted from the beginning. She was trying to mad men her way in his pants.

Matt (01:44:08):

That’s what she was trying to do. But yeah, obviously she doesn’t actually have a choice. Do you want to go to dinner with me and do you want to be at my apartment for two hours first for drinks? Right? What the fuck? And will you please dress sexy? That was not

Laci (01:44:20):

Question, wear your prom dress. Not

Matt (01:44:21):

A question, by the way. Yeah. Do you want me to go? And he says, yes, because if you don’t, I’m afraid something bad will happen. You don’t want to get hurt, do you? And she’s like, no, I don’t want to be bruised.

Laci (01:44:30):

Bruised. That’s such a weird line.

Matt (01:44:34):

He has

Laci (01:44:34):

Lunch. Oh, here’s the mask. The sweaty mask is back. That man is listening.

Matt (01:44:38):

The other actors would say they do the scenes over and over again, and Christian Bale would make himself sweat at the exact same

Laci (01:44:43):

Time. He would make himself sweat. Can’t they just spritz him?

Matt (01:44:46):

He’s just that good.

Laci (01:44:47):

Wow.

Matt (01:44:49):

And he’s like, defo,

Craig (01:44:51):

That sounds like some shit. Jared Leto would say, honestly,

Laci (01:44:54):

Yes. Yes. I can puke on command. I can sweat. Yeah,

Craig (01:44:58):

Sweat on command.

Matt (01:44:59):

So Jared Leto was not a method actor at the time. I believe Jared let’s, Jared let’s, entire story is he was like this teeny bopper guy. Then he worked with Christian Bale on American Psycho, and he is like, that’s who I need to be.

Laci (01:45:10):

Stop it.

Matt (01:45:10):

So now he’s the super serious Patrick. Great, there you go,

Craig (01:45:15):

Patrick. Great.

Matt (01:45:16):

I need to be super serious method guy who doesn’t break character between takes. So yeah, Defoe is like, so where were you the night of the disappearance?

Laci (01:45:27):

All I can do is see you in pantyhose trying to come on to me in Boondock Saints. When you talk like that, that’s all I can see is your man pussy.

Matt (01:45:34):

What do you know about those Boondock saints?

Laci (01:45:37):

Hey, big time.

Matt (01:45:38):

And he’s like, well, I don’t know. I think I was, he’s like, I’ll tell you, you are having dinner with Marcus. That’s right. A perfect alibi. He’s like, okay. Yeah. Everybody’s just getting confused for everybody else. Nobody actually knows where they were. So, okay, this manna from heaven, I am no longer a suspect. Patrick sees Christie on the side of the road, propositions her again, but she is very reluctant to join him, but accepts the money in the end and probably knows, this guy’s not going to leave me alone. He’s going to keep following me. I told him I was considering getting a lawyer, and he is like, oh, well, I’ll just write you a check and we’ll take care of that now. Now that that’s out of the way, come with me again. It’ll be nothing like last time, I promise. So he takes her over to Paul Allen’s apartment where he is told, oh, this is nicer than your other apartment. You fucking, it’s not really nicer. And they meet a friend of his Elizabeth, who is played by the coast green, whiter Guinevere Turner, who is asking Chrissy these questions, where do I know you from? Where do you summer? The South Hamptons.

Laci (01:46:39):

But she’s already so out of it that she’s not even bothered by the fact that he says, that’s his cousin. And he’d like to now have a threesome.

Matt (01:46:46):

He says, cousin. And she’s like, oh, come on. Doesn’t believe it.

Laci (01:46:49):

Oh, alright.

Matt (01:46:49):

But he’s like, Hey, would you have sex with her? And she’s like, Ooh, that’s gRoth. And she’s like, Christian Bale is like, come on. I think it’d be a real turn on Woo. Well in that case. But he’s drugging her, putting drugs in their wine, and

Laci (01:47:05):

He’s a roofie king.

Matt (01:47:08):

They’re making out and stuff. And he’s like, do you guys know about Whitney Houston’s debut lp?

Craig (01:47:13):

And also she explicitly says no. And then there’s a hard cut to them implying that. Well, she says that their drinks tasted funny. And then there’s a hard cut implying time had passed and they’re clearly now have been drugged by something

Matt (01:47:28):

And they show him crushing pills

Craig (01:47:29):

Or

Matt (01:47:31):

Something. So he’s lecturing them about Whitney Houston. And did you know it had four number one singles on it? Did you know that Christie? We cut to them having some hard sex and Christie sneaks away.

Laci (01:47:46):

I’ve never seen a sandwich. Sex just pounding away at two women while you’re on top and they’re just flopping around.

Matt (01:47:52):

Oh, you’ve never done the sandwich.

Hal (01:47:55):

I know. It’s a little confusing as to where the dick is.

Craig (01:47:59):

Guess it was also because I did not realize it was all three of them. And so I was looking at it and then I was like, hold on, there’s extra legs here. I got lost too. Trying to figure out exactly whose legs were who. It’s

Hal (01:48:11):

The beast with three backs.

Craig (01:48:13):

That’s the Lord.

Laci (01:48:16):

The sex worker is serving as a table at that point. They’re just fucking upon her. But it’s smart because she gets out of needing to be penetrated.

Matt (01:48:24):

She rolls out the sandwich,

Laci (01:48:25):

She’s like, oh yeah, she’s up. They

Matt (01:48:27):

Don’t need this bun gone. I’ll just go ahead and collect my things. And then sees he is stabbing the other woman. And she’s like, oh,

Hal (01:48:34):

Also, every single room now has bodies in it.

Matt (01:48:36):

Yes,

Hal (01:48:37):

Yes. And

Matt (01:48:37):

So at this point, it is a full, well, the score gets really psycho E, but now she is the final girl of a slasher and is finding all the bodies around the place in any Friday of the 13th or Halloween. Oh, well I’ll go to this room now. Oh my God. Bodies. No, not in this refrigerator. All body’s in the refrigerator now, and it’s just interesting. Well, and she sees there’s dye, yupe, scum is painted on one of the walls and Patrick starts chasing her with the chainsaw.

Laci (01:49:02):

No, no. He just chases her and bites her leg. It’s the best fucking part. He says like, fuck it, I just want

Matt (01:49:09):

Carnage. But she makes it out and she’s running down the hall of the building and he’s chasing her with the chainsaw. And as Laci pointed out, he’s naked, but he put his shoes back on to

Laci (01:49:18):

Chainsaw. Yes. He put on his little just

Matt (01:49:20):

Practical

Laci (01:49:20):

Tennis. Yes. It’s a look. I like it. That butt is perfect.

Matt (01:49:25):

No, I like it too. And And she runs down the stairs and he drops the chainsaw and it just happens to perfectly pail

Laci (01:49:35):

Her. No. So it just happens. He has a calculated. Yeah. You see him timing that shit. Yeah, he’s timing it. Matt. That’s the whole fucking genius of that part. You fricking knob.

Craig (01:49:43):

I guess so.

Laci (01:49:44):

Yeah.

Craig (01:49:45):

He was watching Texas Chainsaw mask earlier. He understands the technique,

Matt (01:49:51):

The balance, right. In a slasher movie, these are the kinds of kills that happen is the killer drops a chainsaw from six stories up and it happens to perfectly impale the person just that good at throwing

Laci (01:50:01):

Chainsaws. And in T cm two chainsaw up the butt crack. That’s my favorite chainsaw.

Matt (01:50:05):

Yes. So it is funny if a movie that suddenly reveals this movie has the rules of a slasher movie, which could make the case that actually all this stuff really is happening

Laci (01:50:15):

And the apathy of a Boondock Saints, I hate to go back to it, but she’s banging on the doors and screaming bloody murder and this very prestige fricking building a building that should have no criminal activity and no one is coming out.

Matt (01:50:27):

That also happens in Halloween. But yeah, it’s probably the boondock scenes.

Laci (01:50:30):

It’s probably the boondock scenes.

Matt (01:50:33):

So

Laci (01:50:35):

Look at Reese.

Matt (01:50:36):

I think my favorite scene in the movie is where they break up is where he breaks up with Reese with spoon, because first he’s coloring on the table

Laci (01:50:44):

What he just did,

Matt (01:50:45):

But just coloring on this white tablecloth

Laci (01:50:48):

Child. He was given

Matt (01:50:49):

Crayons. Yes. He had to request these crayons. Well, can I get some crayons?

Laci (01:50:52):

I just want rud.

Matt (01:50:54):

And he’s like, I think we should see other people, but she’s not really even listening to him.

Laci (01:50:58):

Oh, stop it. Mr. Grumpy

Craig (01:51:00):

Love again. The gag of that, it cuts to him drawing. And it’s not even he’s drawing the murder scene. He just did.

Laci (01:51:07):

He just did. Yep.

Craig (01:51:08):

But you would assume, okay, he’s at work or something, and then it zooms out all the people cloth.

Laci (01:51:15):

Anytime he’s with her, he needs an activity. He has to have the music on. He has to be coloring. She’s so hard to stomach that he needs a

Matt (01:51:24):

Fidget. So yeah, I don’t think we should see each other anymore. And she’s like, wow, you’re really serious about this. What about the past? Our past? And he’s like, well, we never really had one. You’re just not terribly important to me.

Speaker 5 (01:51:36):

And oh, Patrick.

Matt (01:51:37):

Yeah. She starts screaming and he’s like, I’m leaving. She’s like, well, where are you going? I have to return some videotapes video. So he goes to the ATM, he sees a little kitty on the ground. He’s like, well, here kitty, kitty, kitty. And picks it up. And then the at m says, feed me a stray hat. And now he takes a gun out of his jacket. We’ve never seen him having a gun before has appeared and a woman

Craig (01:51:58):

Comes. So I feel also going back to the, is this real or not? I feel like there is a lot of stuff in retrospect when you watch it, you’re like, okay, that could have been fake. That could have been fake. But I do feel like unless I’m forgetting something, the Feed Me a stray cat is one of the first extremely explicit, wait,

Laci (01:52:16):

What

Craig (01:52:16):

The fuck is this a real thing? He

Laci (01:52:18):

Blows up a cop car with a gunshot even he looks at the gun. What?

Craig (01:52:25):

And I think so much of it, I think, well y’all alluded to it at the beginning, is like, does it matter or not? And I ultimately, I don’t think it does because it is a movie about a man who is violent and insane, and his reality is the reality that we’re in. So if the ATM said, feed me a stray cat, then that’s what happened. So he’s just rolling with it.

Matt (01:52:48):

I think my favorite character in the movie though might be the woman who sees him about to feed the straight cat,

Laci (01:52:52):

Stop that.

Matt (01:52:53):

It’s just like, oh no, don’t do that.

Laci (01:52:55):

Don’t feed the cat to the thingy.

Matt (01:52:57):

And he just shoots her and lets the cat live. But now the cops, the heat is up so the cops are chasing him and he gets

Laci (01:53:02):

Close. Well, if a white lady dies, everyone’s alerted.

Matt (01:53:05):

He gets close to the cop car and he gets in a firefight with the cops and just shoots the cop car and it explodes. That’s awesome. And he looks at the gun and he is like, okay. Well

Craig (01:53:17):

Also I do like that too because he is never, he really knowledges how everything is working out in his favor in a way that until I think that struck me this time, watching it as too, him looking at the gun is kind of the first time he acknowledges, what the fuck, how do I keep, how does everything keep coming up? Patrick Bateman here.

Matt (01:53:39):

I’m sure there’s a very boring read of this movie. A fan theory guys, here’s my fan theory. Patrick Pateman is actually in a

Laci (01:53:45):

Video game

Matt (01:53:46):

And he’s becoming aware.

Laci (01:53:48):

He’s a vaa brain,

Matt (01:53:50):

A brain and a brain,

Laci (01:53:51):

You know what I mean?

Matt (01:53:52):

And he doesn’t realize his HP has gone up and now his gun is more than just a gun. So he goes into the lobby of this building and immediately shoots the night desk clerk. And I love that. He goes around the round, the revolving door gets Jan goes back in to shoot the janitor,

Laci (01:54:07):

But then it’s like he immediately wants a redo. So he goes into an identical building where he also can go up and does it right this time, this out the pin,

Craig (01:54:17):

I meant to look this up, but that’s for sure the same as NAMI Plaza, right? That lobby is,

Laci (01:54:23):

It does look the same, but it also looks like one shell square, which is where my mom worked. So I think it all just looks like that.

Craig (01:54:29):

Okay. It looks so much like the same big

Laci (01:54:32):

Marble

Craig (01:54:33):

From diehard

Laci (01:54:34):

Marble. It totally does, but that is exactly what it looks like. The same

Craig (01:54:37):

Spot

Matt (01:54:37):

Too. See, I think buildings just all look the same. True.

Laci (01:54:41):

That’s true.

Matt (01:54:42):

I think

Laci (01:54:42):

Guys take shots.

Matt (01:54:44):

I should have looked up where this was filmed. I assumed it was in New York, but I don’t know because Nao Plaza actually was filmed in that fox, that Century City

Craig (01:54:51):

Building.

Matt (01:54:54):

So he goes up to his office and calls his lawyer and he is like, Hey, my lawyer. And I think now Christian Baal is now using the real Patrick Bateman voice, which he’s like, I got to tell you what I’m doing here. I don’t remember exactly how it sounds

Craig (01:55:11):

Gut.

Matt (01:55:11):

Yeah, it sounds way less like the affected voice that he’s been putting on the whole movie,

Craig (01:55:17):

Composed,

Matt (01:55:18):

Falling apart. I got to tell you about all this stuff I’ve been doing. I killed some man with a dog last week and

Laci (01:55:24):

It’s not precise. He doesn’t exactly know what he’s going to say, and it’s not even totally accurate.

Matt (01:55:28):

I killed another girl with a chainsaw. I had to and something else I can’t remember. And I tried to eat her brains. It’s so funny. See you after a little. Anyway. Yeah, call me back. Okay, thanks. Bye. Again,

Laci (01:55:45):

It’s Patrick Maman 5 0 4.

Matt (01:55:50):

The next day he goes to Jared let’s apartment with a surgical mask on. I guess he’s looking to dispose of bodies, but there are people here. It looks all different. It’s like a real estate shirt.

Laci (01:55:59):

It looks like it’s been both cleaned or it’s in the middle of someone moving out and someone moving in. I like how the movie plays with your idea of like, okay, did the wolf come here? Has this been cleaned up? That’s a good point. Yeah. I mean, I think that it still want you to know, and even the knowing, look on this woman’s face, it’s almost like she’s like, oh, you are the reason I had to get the wolf in here to flip this apartment. I think it’s best if you leave. And he’s very subservient to her, not because he’s a cuck Mac, but because he’s like, oh, you fixed it. Okay, goodbye godmother. He’s realizing he has special powers, but he doesn’t know. Is it really magic? Are you my magic

Matt (01:56:35):

Godmother? Or she could be this because the way that this actress who plays the real estate, woman plays it is she’s like, are you my two o’clock? And he’s like, no. And she’s like,

Laci (01:56:43):

Get the fuck out. You

Matt (01:56:44):

Disgust his disgust. As soon as you’re not, you don’t represent an opportunity for me. Get the fuck out of here. No,

Craig (01:56:49):

I read it. Laci as well is that she is looking at him. You are the reason we’re here. I think that adds to the, is this real or not? And that he is clearly being like, what the fuck happened to this place? I must have the wrong spot. But she’s also acknowledging like, no, you got the right one asshole. You’re in the right spot. You know, which why we’re here keep

Laci (01:57:09):

Right. And you think about who his dad is and it’s like, well, did the fucking lawyer call my dad? Did my dad fix this overnight? Is the lawyer going to pretend I was joking? What the, I really can’t fuck up out of this. I’m stuck here.

Craig (01:57:23):

The lawyer is going to pretend like he was joking or Yes.

Laci (01:57:26):

He doesn’t even know it’s you. He doesn’t,

Craig (01:57:28):

Yeah. Doesn’t realize.

Matt (01:57:30):

Right. But if we ever have to sell the house we live in right now, I feel like we are going to have to call the wolf and it will look like a murder

Laci (01:57:37):

Coverup. There’s just a lot of piss and shit

Matt (01:57:39):

To make our house look presentable.

Laci (01:57:42):

Our child is like Encino man with his poop. It’s part of his creativity.

Craig (01:57:48):

You don’t have to say that.

Laci (01:57:48):

Well, it’s fine. He’s a sweet baby boy.

Craig (01:57:51):

I have elderly dog that exclusively pees and poops on our floor now. So

Laci (01:57:57):

In their boat, once you find a good spot, it’s like Dorsia, you got to shit there.

Matt (01:58:02):

Now nobody shits at Dorsia anymore.

Laci (01:58:04):

Oh, sorry.

Matt (01:58:06):

Calls up Chloe Vinnie. Chloe soon on the

Laci (01:58:10):

Phone

Matt (01:58:10):

Booth and he’s just like, I need help. And she’s like, wait, I can’t hear you.

Laci (01:58:15):

She’s already, well, Andy’s being a total asshole to her and she’s just worried about him. She’s different, Matt. All right.

Matt (01:58:22):

And what he says is, stop sounding so fucking sad. Like stop being sorry for me. Stop being sad for me. Hangs up on her. And then she goes into his office, looks at his appointment book again. He never does any work. His appointments are all

Laci (01:58:34):

Just, he’s working hard. You know how hard it’s to cover up all these murders.

Matt (01:58:38):

But then he’s drawing after drawing of graphic depictions of murder and sexual

Laci (01:58:42):

Violence. A lot of squirting, a lot of squirters in that drawing.

Matt (01:58:44):

A lot of splattering. Yeah. We expected the Kate Winslet and Titan. Oh, these are good.

Speaker 5 (01:58:50):

These are

Laci (01:58:51):

Very good.

Speaker 5 (01:58:52):

Okay,

Matt (01:58:54):

So he goes

Craig (01:58:54):

To That’s really funny. That is really funny though that his drawings are terrible. I do like that. You

Laci (01:58:59):

Out there just stick people coming.

Craig (01:59:03):

One of the greatest movies of the last 10 or 15 years, I’m going to be hyperbolic. I feel like maybe we’ve even argued about this, but Pop star, never stop, never Stopping that one. The Andy movie. It’s a great, we’ve not movie. Yeah, I love that movie. But the running gag that he took some time off to work on his art and then all the shittiest drawings of horses is exactly the vibe that his little sketchbook gives.

Matt (01:59:30):

Yeah, it will never not. He’s a fidgeter. I love every version of the joke of somebody worked so hard on some form of art, whether it’s music or art or whatever it is, and you see it and it’s terrible.

Laci (01:59:41):

Yeah, yeah. It’s hard for some people.

Matt (01:59:44):

But you just said Patrick Bateman’s drawings are bad. And my heart hurt a little bit for him. I’m like, oh, I’ll leave him alone.

Laci (01:59:50):

I know they’re not bad for us. He’s got a lot on his mind. Yeah, he’s getting some baggage.

Matt (01:59:55):

His friends, his best friends in the universe are over at the bar. They’re trying to find a resi and he’s just going to go meet them and try to act normal. And so he immediately is like, I’m not going anywhere without a reservation. He says, but then he immediately drops into scared, panicking Patrick Bateman then sees his lawyer, the lawyer who I called last night and confessed everything to goes up to him and he is like, oh, hello Davis. His lawyer also doesn’t recognize that he’s Patrick Bateman. And he says, did you get my message? And the lawyer’s like, oh yeah, that was hilarious. Patrick Bateman killing some girls. He’s such a dork. Listen, I’m not one to bad mouth anyone, but your joke had one fatal flaw. Bateman, he’s such a spineless lightweight and so he

Laci (02:00:41):

Could never kill, never kill like a hardcore king.

Matt (02:00:44):

And so I guess the lawyer’s like, well, we mostly talk on the phone, so of course I don’t actually recognize you in real life, but here you are. And he’s

Laci (02:00:51):

Like, but you cash the checks baby.

Matt (02:00:52):

I’m Patrick Bateman. I chopped Paul Allen’s fucking head off. And that whole message I left on your machine was true. And the lawyer looks at him very seriously and he’s like, that can’t be true because I had dinner with Paul Allen 10 days ago,

Laci (02:01:06):

So maybe they all just look like, and he killed someone he thought was Paul Allen.

Matt (02:01:11):

No. So it’s all like dawning on him. None of this is real or

Laci (02:01:16):

This is Reagan’s America.

Matt (02:01:17):

I live in a video game and everything’s always going to go my way. I put in the cheat code where it’s Grand Theft Auto and the cops will never be after me. So he goes and sits down with his bros and there’s this TV mounted on the wall. I miss these TV mounts, this beautiful tube television show talking about the Iran Contra. It was a regrettable thing. Mommy,

Laci (02:01:40):

Three impressions in one movie.

Matt (02:01:42):

Sorry. I love it. Justin Thoreau is like, how can that motherfucker lie to us like that? How can he be so cool about it? And someone else, I don’t remember who’s like, some guys are just cool I guess. And yeah, they’re looking up at Ronald Reagan. He presents himself as this harmless old cadre, but inside and then the voiceover Bateman says Inside, doesn’t matter all the May I have caused all my utter indifference toward it. It’s surpassed. I do not hope for a better world. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. My punishment continues to elude me. I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling this confession has meant nothing. The end, that’s the end of the movie,

Craig (02:02:40):

And it was in 2000. It was a very poignant tale about the corruption and how masculinity and the pursuit of material will poison everything. And I’m glad that we all as a world, we learned the lesson, took that to heart, and now are living in there.

Hal (02:02:59):

That’s what I was going to say is I feel like watching this right now, it’s a great satirical evisceration of a very particular vacuous bourgeois masculinity and oh wait, right now, crypto fascist techno breasts are currently wrecking havoc. I think for me, it doesn’t matter if the most explicit bloodiest violence is real because even if Patrick Bateman didn’t kill any of those women, he probably still would’ve drugged them. He still worked in mergers and acquisitions, which is one of the most exploitative fields that’s all about playing with the financialization of the market at the expense of people’s lives and livelihoods. He would’ve contributed nothing of worth

Craig (02:03:49):

That’s we never see him working is because those types of jobs they’re not doing require

Hal (02:03:54):

Work. He’d still be filled with greed, disgust and contempt. And it’s the same thing like these fucking doggy motherfuckers a bit I stole from true oron. They call it doggy and instead

Speaker 5 (02:04:07):

Doggy,

Hal (02:04:09):

But it’s like they do the same thing. This real and fake violence being mirrored where online, all those fucking, that pack of idiot, 19 year olds are saying horrible things online about women in all kinds of minoritized groups. And then also they’re exploding. Federal agencies benefits that or programs that benefit people, and again, people’s jobs and livelihoods. So it doesn’t really matter because the personality, the kind of masculinity that he embodies and the economic class that it represents is doing these things and enacting this form of violence. This is just like the most extreme metaphorical version of it.

Matt (02:04:49):

If he’s not literally going and killing all these people, the things that

Laci (02:04:52):

Still burning lives, all of

Matt (02:04:53):

These guys are doing in their jobs. They’re doing the respectable version of it. They’re ruining people’s lives, they’re destroying them financially and doing violence. And then Ronald Reagan literally doing covert wars around the world and neglecting, causing people to die of AIDS by ignoring it and denying, denying it. And

Laci (02:05:14):

He’s just the reality no one wants to see.

Matt (02:05:17):

And to him, he is like, well, the ultimate ideal is if I could be a super cool killer from the horror movies, do you guys have a star rating for the movie Letterbox Rules Out of five

Craig (02:05:31):

Letterbox Rules, and I’m sorry, but I’m a bit of a purist. I don’t do this half star business on letterbox.

Hal (02:05:38):

What do you mean purist? It’s built into the thing, right?

Craig (02:05:40):

Yeah. I meant purist in the terms of stars. I’m a star purist and we don’t give half stars. Even for a long time got way too invested in my thoughts of what a number rating I would give to something and it was giving me anxiety about the way I watched movies and I swear to God, I lost so much anxiety when I was like, you know what? I’m going to take half stars out of my rating system on Litter Box and only go full stars. It’s been a beautiful validating process for me to remove those half stars, but this will be a five for me. I do like this movie a whole lot and it’s been a long time. Favorite and Is Aged well. No, it hasn’t aged well, I’ll say

Matt (02:06:25):

That. You have aged. Well,

Craig (02:06:27):

Thank you. I appreciate that. It’s still, but I think it has been at different stages of my life has kept its relevancy to me.

Matt (02:06:38):

I think I might subscribe to your Half star the way you just said. That kind of sold me. I think way too much about my ratings and it’s like I give everything. Yeah, I should just dispense with the half stars

Craig (02:06:49):

I got so sick of doing the Half Stars. I’d be like, well, I gave, I don’t know. Well, if Shrek got two and a half stars and I gave Shrek two stars, was it really one half star less better than Shrek?

Hal (02:07:01):

Plug into your intuition.

Craig (02:07:03):

Thank you.

Hal (02:07:03):

It’s like

Craig (02:07:04):

That’s

Matt (02:07:04):

What I do.

Craig (02:07:05):

Buy with it. Thank you.

Hal (02:07:07):

I have no interest in maintaining what in social science research we would call intra coder reliability. Fuck it. I don’t care. Their final destination. Five stars. Oh five baby. Also the Devil’s five stars. Speria 20 18 5 Star. Absolutely. I’m fucking care Beyond Valley Dolls. Five stars.

Craig (02:07:29):

American Psycho.

Hal (02:07:30):

Yeah. I’m going to say three and a half.

Craig (02:07:32):

Okay, we are on the half stars.

Hal (02:07:33):

I may have said four, but I’m just going to say it to flow and a half. Yeah, to

Craig (02:07:39):

I round up four. Four stars. I’m contrarian. It’s a four stars. Well get it. What about Y? What about you?

Laci (02:07:44):

It’s five for me.

Matt (02:07:46):

Hell yeah. All right, well I’m going to go four and a half.

Laci (02:07:49):

You fuck. I told you, I told you. How’s the bat? This podcast don’t really,

Matt (02:07:53):

Don’t really know why I shouldn’t go five though. I really loved it and I think talking about it with you guys has made me love it even more. Oh yeah. Fuck it. Five stars.

Laci (02:08:01):

Oh, this little contrarian went to the bar. Five and a

Matt (02:08:04):

Half I think. Yeah, obviously Christian Bale

Laci (02:08:07):

Is great. Still give it 110% over there.

Matt (02:08:09):

Obviously Christian Bale is great. Everyone is great. I think Mary Herron does a great job directing it both as a comedy, as a commentary on the Wealthy class New York of 1987, and it’s just a good horror movie. It’s a good slasher movie. It’s a super effective slasher movie. And I know it’s not the kind of movie she wanted to make, but if she got to make just straightforward slasher movie, that would’ve been awesome. And maybe she will one

Laci (02:08:33):

Day. I love Slashers in a suit though.

Matt (02:08:34):

Yeah.

Laci (02:08:35):

Yeah.

Matt (02:08:37):

So check it out. Everybody. Check out

Laci (02:08:39):

American Cycle. Yeah, she really give it a check.

Matt (02:08:41):

Yeah. We have had so much fun talking to you guys for two hours. Yeah, same. Sorry. Sorry about how long this has been.

Laci (02:08:49):

I know. Not at all. Turned into a pumpkin. Sorry, I’m drifting.

Matt (02:08:51):

Please tell everybody one more time about Red Rose Film Club and where they can find it.

Craig (02:08:55):

Yeah, you can find it wherever you get podcasts. It is a movie podcast. It is a politics podcast. We are both leftists and to talk about movies and kind of look at them from a leftist perspective in a industry that is dominated by liberal capitalism.

Hal (02:09:17):

Follow us on a letterbox. I’m at She Structured

Craig (02:09:20):

And I’m

Hal (02:09:22):

Keg F Freighter.

Craig (02:09:23):

Oh, keg Freighter. That’s me on letterbox. My real name was taken and every iteration of it, so I just thought of two rhyming words.

Matt (02:09:33):

Yeah, everybody, please check out their podcast. It’s an excellent podcast.

Laci (02:09:38):

Very informative,

Matt (02:09:39):

Very informative. You bring so much historical perspective like history of the world, not just the history of the movie itself, but to put it into context. And you bring that leftist political analysis that I feel is so in such short supply and really help me understand even the sort of liberal capitalistic things that go into movies that you might not notice. They’re just so ingrained in us that we don’t think about them. And I’ve tried to apply that to my own thinking about movies, especially as I’ve been watching so many spy movies recently. It’s like love a good spy. These spy movies all seem to have the CIA or whatever is CIA adjacent doing something bad. And it’s like that’s bad. But the reason they’re doing something bad is because a bad person got control of the CIA and

Laci (02:10:27):

That’s bad, bad Apple.

Matt (02:10:27):

So we just need to get rid of the bad guy and then go back to doing good. And it’s like once you notice that’s a plot of so many movies. Maybe there’s a reason that is,

Craig (02:10:35):

And that’s why Elon Musk and Doge are going to get rid of those bad actors and these government agencies

Matt (02:10:41):

Just get in there, get under the hood, take a look. Get rid of this inefficient bad CI men thing.

Hal (02:10:48):

I would say that any leftist, wherever you are in your journey, whether you’re just waking up from the liberal nap or whether you’re a hardcore socialist or an anarchist, you have to have a systems level analysis. It just is required and it is my mission always to bring that to our discussions on Red Rose Film Club.

Matt (02:11:12):

And you mean Systems as opposed to just focusing on individual people or individualized,

Hal (02:11:17):

Like understanding institutions how power flows and operates.

Matt (02:11:23):

Everybody, please check out Red Rose Film Club wherever you get your podcasts. As for us, we’re taking the week off next week for spring break. We’re going to go fuck y’all drink from some coconuts

Laci (02:11:32):

And no, we’re goddamn

Matt (02:11:33):

Hang 10

Laci (02:11:34):

For we’re going to drink our tears and watch our children

Matt (02:11:36):

The following week. We will return with Sister Act two

Laci (02:11:40):

Because we do the big hitting films, man.

Matt (02:11:42):

Yeah, we love Sister Act One year ago. Finally, we’re returning for Sister Act two and we’re having our guest, our friend Jen. Jen walks into Walls coming. So episode 1 57 on April 25th, tell a friend about our podcast, give us a review on Apple Podcast. Subscribe to us on YouTube, follow us on letterbox. I’m Matt Stokes, nine Laci’s Load. Bring Laci and my band, rural Route nine does the music for the show. Please check us out on Spotify or wherever you get your music. That’s it. Thank you. You really check out Rural Route nine, you music from the beginning of the,

Laci (02:12:14):

Okay, I love you, goodbye.