The Firm (1993)

Matt (00:00:21):

Hey y’all. Welcome to the South, down here in the Memphis law firm. We do things a little slower than you all up on Wall Street.

Laci (00:00:31):

You can say that, but I’ve never seen Tom Cruise run more than when he is in a mission impossible fucking movie. They seem to do things fast,

Matt (00:00:39):

But he’s not from there. See, that’s true. That’s his biggest struggle in this movie. He’s like, God damnit, everybody’s just going. The bad guy is Wilfred Brimley, who’s 300 pounds and has diabetes and he’s the one chasing him. So Tom Cruise, Tom Cruise makes it all the way away, and then he just stomps his foot like Sonic, waiting for him to catch up. I’m coming, Tom Cruise. I’m coming.

Laci (00:01:00):

Do some gymnastics for a while, while swing on that bar so I can catch up to you.

Matt (00:01:04):

I’m Matt Stokes.

Laci (00:01:06):

I’m Laci Roth.

Matt (00:01:07):

We’re married to each other like Mitch and Abby McDeere.

Laci (00:01:11):

If you need a reference to understand,

Matt (00:01:13):

If you’re wondering, but wait a minute, what does that mean? If you’ve seen the firm where like Tom Cruise and Jeanne Tripplehorn in that movie.

Laci (00:01:19):

There you go.

Matt (00:01:19):

And we’re always pulling fun pranks on each other like, oh, I don’t know who you are, sir, but my husbands do any moment. And then we, it’s of Embrace

Laci (00:01:28):

A fucking prank.

Matt (00:01:28):

It’s a little prank.

Laci (00:01:29):

They’re playing I on each other. I’m pranking you. I actually do know you’re my husband. I’m don’t have dementia.

Matt (00:01:34):

But what’s funny is in that scene, Laci took it literally and she’s like, wait, so are they married or not?

Laci (00:01:38):

I know like, wait, is he coming? She got me.

Matt (00:01:42):

So what is this? This is Load Bearing Beams. We’re covering the movie, the firm, the 1993 legal thriller starring Tom Cruise, and this is Load Bearing Beams, a movie podcast. Normally one of us picks a movie that we loved from long ago and we examine it with our beloved. And a lot of times that doesn’t apply at all. We just pick a movie we want to talk about.

Laci (00:02:02):

Well, because Gene Hackman died,

Matt (00:02:04):

Gene Hackman

Laci (00:02:05):

Died. So we’ve been hacking through his movies.

Matt (00:02:07):

Yes,

Laci (00:02:08):

They make us feel good.

Matt (00:02:09):

I want to,

Laci (00:02:10):

Well, gene Hackman’s, the load-bearing beam here. Gene

Matt (00:02:13):

Hackman’s. The load bearer, not the movie, just the person. Well, I would say it’s not that John Grisham is a load-bearing beam for me in the way we define it, but I did when I was 15 years old, get super into reading John Grisham novels and was like, oh, I’m a grownup. I’m reading adult books, serious stuff, words like Brief and Pelican Objection and Pelican

Laci (00:02:36):

Child,

Matt (00:02:37):

And saw the movies as well and certainly saw this movie.

Laci (00:02:41):

It is funny you say that because I do associate these movies with my grandparents. I remember seeing bits and pieces of them and knowing they weren’t for children somehow, but they weren’t the kind you have to turn off if a child’s in the room either. So it was just like, I can tell that what’s on the screen for me, so I’m going to keep coloring fucking Highlights magazine, but I get it. It looks thrilling up there. Someone’s being

Matt (00:03:04):

Thrilled. I’ll tell you one thing I like about the firm. There’s some fucks. There’s a lot of fucks. It’s an R-rated movie. The only thing that’s missing is some titties. I think we need some tits and butts and dicks and then we get a real sexy, like adult thriller. If it was a Michael Douglas movie, if Michael Douglas was playing Mitch McTeer, we’d see that. But instead it’s Tom Cruise

Laci (00:03:24):

Because Tom Cruise won’t let us see his penis.

Matt (00:03:26):

No, it’s a different kind of movie. If it’s Tom Cruise,

Laci (00:03:29):

He’s probably got a great penis.

Matt (00:03:31):

Sure.

Laci (00:03:32):

Maybe he doesn’t. That’s why we’ve never seen it.

Matt (00:03:34):

Sure. There’s this idea in my head when I was, I don’t know, 10 years old of what a grownup movie is, and it involves

Laci (00:03:41):

Lots of penis

Matt (00:03:42):

Fucks and sex, a little bit of nudity and lots of talk about court cases.

Laci (00:03:48):

Okay. Yes. Because your mom needs to have the reaction of putting her hands over your eyes at least once, and that’s not going to happen because of a sexy deposition.

Matt (00:03:55):

Right.

Laci (00:03:56):

I got you.

Matt (00:03:56):

But Gene Hackman who died, he is my favorite actor, so I guess let’s just talk about him for a few minutes. I try to, I’ve been watching so many Gene Hackman movies and trying to distill what it is that I love about him so much, and I can’t really,

Laci (00:04:13):

I can tell you,

Matt (00:04:14):

Okay,

Laci (00:04:14):

He’s a steady hand.

Matt (00:04:16):

He’s a steady hand.

Laci (00:04:17):

You can hand him anything and he’s going to sell it, and you’re going to feel comforted by him, even if he’s the bad guy. I don’t even know if he can totally turn heel because he’s so comforting.

Matt (00:04:28):

Well comforting. It’s interesting.

Laci (00:04:29):

I find him comforting.

Matt (00:04:31):

I find him comforting in like, oh, hell yes, there’s Gene Hackman, thank God my favorite actor reading what lots of other actors and directors have said since he has died. So many of them, no, no, no, sorry, reading quotes that people have said that actors and directors said about Gene Hackman way before he died, when they’re like, who’s the best actor you ever worked with? And it’s like, oh, gene Hackman. Almost like everybody knows Gene Hackman’s a great actor. He’s won two Oscars. He was a super accomplished movie star and actor, and it almost seems like he’s underrated

Laci (00:05:05):

Because you’re actually talking about two things. You’re talking about not just who’s great on the screen, but who’s great to work with. And it’s like the majority of what matters is like, what are you like on the day to day when I have to give you my best performance too?

Matt (00:05:19):

But see there he was a very difficult, notoriously difficult person to work with. Oh no. And a cranky man.

Laci (00:05:25):

Oh geez.

Matt (00:05:26):

Kevin Costner tells this story about when he was making No Way Out in 1987.

(00:05:33):

At this point, Jean Hackman’s decades into a decorated career, and Kevin Costner’s a Young up and coming start, and Kevin Costner really pushes back on the Kevin Costner’s always been a difficult, pushy guy with directors looking. Kevin Costner knows better how to direct this movie. So he starts pushing back on the director in a scene with Gene Hackman, and later Gene Hackman takes him aside and he says he knows Gene Hackman’s reputation. He assumes he’s about to get torn to shreds by Gene Hackman. And instead, gene Hackman said, I like seeing you. That reminds me of when I used to care about acting. And there is the Gene Hackman who is engaged, and the Gene Hackman, who’s disinterested.

Laci (00:06:10):

Okay, well, you’ve been watching all the movies and I have not.

Matt (00:06:13):

And the Gene Hackman, who is disinterested is also the most compelling person you’ve ever seen on screen. I would contrast that with Bruce Willis,

Laci (00:06:21):

Who can

Matt (00:06:21):

Be lazy in a movie and you can tell, or he can be electric. Gene Hackman can either be the greatest ever on screen or a super compelling person to

Laci (00:06:30):

Watch.

Matt (00:06:32):

It’s just energy. It, it’s a, it’s distinctive screen energy, A combination of menacing and sad, but a little funny, but a little scary. But the smartest guy in the room, I don’t know.

Laci (00:06:50):

I don’t know. I sound like he sounds like I want him to say nice things about me. Yes,

Matt (00:06:56):

Because all the actors I love are that they’re all a little

Laci (00:06:58):

Scary. They’re all a little crotchety

Matt (00:07:00):

And they’re a little cranky. I love Ed Harris. I love Tommy Lee Jones. These are all men who if I met in real life, I’d hide from because I’d be scared of them.

Laci (00:07:07):

Love daddy.

Matt (00:07:08):

Ed Harris yells at Tom Cruise in this movie and I’m shrinking. I’m like, oh no, boy. Oh

Laci (00:07:13):

Boy. Be nice. I hope that’s your best boy.

Matt (00:07:15):

So obviously the firm, though, it’s not a Gene Hackman movie, we were trying to come up with things to talk about. We’re going to be doing Heartbreakers next week. Laci’s movie. I don’t know anything about that movie. I love it. I don’t know how much Hackman is in it. It’s

Laci (00:07:27):

Been years since I’ve seen it. We will see. It’s a true load bearing beam.

Matt (00:07:29):

Yeah. Okay.

Laci (00:07:31):

I really like Jason. I went through a Jason Lee moment

Matt (00:07:34):

And then on the Patreon we’re doing Royal Tenin bombs, and that might be his best performance. So that’s the Gene Hackman movie that we’re talking about. We’re also just trying to find fun stuff to talk about, and I’m excited to talk about this legal thriller.

Laci (00:07:47):

What if fucking this movie is wild. I don’t know what I thought it was. It’s not that

Matt (00:07:53):

You had never seen

Laci (00:07:53):

It. It was amazing and weird. And what were they doing? What did they do with that?

Matt (00:08:02):

Yeah, you had never seen it and you didn’t even know what the plot

Laci (00:08:04):

Was. I had no idea. And I just kept looking at you.

Matt (00:08:07):

So you’re like, wait, is he going to get possessed by the devil or something? No,

Laci (00:08:10):

God, it had devil’s advocate vibes. It had a lot of shots that remind me of a lot of other movies.

Matt (00:08:17):

What did you like so much about it?

Laci (00:08:20):

I had no idea where the fuck it was going. I didn’t know how Tom Cruise seemed to be in such a horrible predicament. I was like, how’s he going to get out of? I truly didn’t know. And I love that. I don’t know, it just took so many, it had so many characters with first and last names, so many actors I know, and they all kind of had something to do. I knew Holly Hunter won a fucking award for this performance, and I

Matt (00:08:45):

Nominated,

Laci (00:08:46):

Nominated, and I barely saw her until I saw her more. And I was just like, this could go so many ways. It just kept me guessing

Matt (00:08:55):

The cast when two hours into the movie, suddenly Paul Sorvino walks onto the screen and you’re like, Jesus Christ, come on.

Laci (00:09:01):

I think the first time I was like, what the fuck is Bussy? I’m just like, that’s a major character actor and he’s just thrown in here just for some flavor. Alright.

Matt (00:09:13):

That’s what’s wonderful about this movie and what’s wonderful about the boomlet of legal thrillers from Hollywood and the reason legal, I mean, courtroom trial movies are great for cinematically because you get lots of different roles for lots of different character actors to just chew up.

Matt (00:09:31):

So it’s right there for you. It’s an easy thing to make compelling. I want to get into this, as I said, this mini era of Hollywood where the legal thriller was all the rage and try to figure out why do we think that happened? Why did it end? Why did it stop?

Laci (00:09:51):

Do we think it just went to West Wing? Do we think it drifted to procedurals on tv? They’re like, oh, this is good. Now let’s just turn this into three different kinds of series. Everyone gets sick on it

Matt (00:10:03):

Because these movies, all these legal thrillers, all these John Grisham novels, the movies, what makes them compelling is that they’re movies is that they’re two hours in, they’re over with, but they could also easily just be a CBS drama. And in fact, many times they are. And that’s what Law and Order is, and CSI and NCIS and everything, I

Laci (00:10:25):

Think maybe it just bubbled

Matt (00:10:28):

Right and then the bubble burst, but I wonder why that is. And then part of it is like Hollywood doesn’t, this is a sub genre of just the mid-budget movie starring movie stars for your parents or your aunt and uncle that Hollywood is not interested in making anymore. Partly because the business just changed. And they said, these don’t translate to overseas. People in Japan don’t understand the American legal system, so they don’t care. That kind of stuff. Had you ever read a John Grisham novel? Are you a fan of, that’s

Laci (00:11:00):

Cute. No, this is long before I thought reading was a thing.

Matt (00:11:03):

A Time to Kill, or the client or the

Laci (00:11:05):

Pelican Brief, the movies just listen, I’ve seen those movies. Of course, yes. A Time To Kill. That’s with, don’t say her name Julie Roberts.

Matt (00:11:13):

No, that’s the Pelican Brief, the

Laci (00:11:14):

PE brief.

Matt (00:11:15):

Okay. Time To Kill is Matthew McConaughey.

Laci (00:11:17):

McConaughey

Matt (00:11:18):

McConaughey. So I read A Time To Kill when I was 15, and then I read the firm, I think I read his first five novels in order, the Firm of

Laci (00:11:28):

Fucking Lord of the Rings.

Matt (00:11:30):

Sure,

Laci (00:11:30):

Read ’em all.

Matt (00:11:32):

Read the first five of his 49 novels, and I reread it last week to prepare for this, and I’ll get into it a little more later, but let me just say, this is absolutely a case where the movie is a thousand times better than the novel. A lot of it is pretty faithful to the novel until it makes some pretty drastic changes from the book. For example, the whole ending of the movie is not in the novel, but it’s a great idea to do it this way. But it’s like what you see how a sort of, okay novelist, if his ideas get handled by a good screenwriter and a great director and great actors do like, oh, that’s how you turn it into something with just so much more weight and magic

Laci (00:12:23):

And the pure volume of books this man wrote would be my first clue as to why someone would think let’s go series with this. Because I mean, not that they’re giving him credit, but if there are this many courtroom ideas or we don’t have to do ’em great, they just have to be satisfying, right? There just has to be a problem and then a good kind, a bad guy, and then at the end there’s a resolution. So it’s just kind of the perfect formula in the most simplistic way people think of the legal system. I understand why a courtroom procedural thing would be very satisfying to watch in 30 minute intervals,

Matt (00:13:01):

And even, I don’t think it’s a great book, but I do remember, oh, there is something very soothing about the way he writes, the way he describes the interiors of law firms and the process of writing briefs and can describe courtrooms and judges and stuff. So he’s good at that. And I’m sure if you’re a big fan of John Grisham, you read everything he writes, even to this day, the repetition that’s enjoyable about it,

Laci (00:13:27):

When you think about what are the professions that are written about the most in movie scripts, and when she pointed out to me, I could not notice it, how many writers there are and how many people who just are a sub for a writer or a director. But then you think about, okay, now who are actor, writer adjacent? Who are the people that these famous people interact with on a pretty regular basis? Well, then I would say lawyers and I would say other people who are in the corporate world, like that kind of white collar thing or an agent type thing. So that can relate to sports age. I don’t know. I’m just trying to think of, there are these huge categories of movie depictions of just a handful of professions and then the rest are never thought about. So then I would also go with airports and pilots is another thing, and that’s because these guys travel all the time. And then I would also go waiters and anyway, okay, sorry, I thought I had, it’s just the stuff

Matt (00:14:27):

You’re interacting with, the

Laci (00:14:28):

Stuff actors and directors interact with the most, the people and the professions, either what they were before they became who they were, students and service industry people, and then airplanes, car drivers, pilots

Matt (00:14:44):

And gyms,

Laci (00:14:45):

And then a gym. They’re like a gym. I’m onto something.

Matt (00:14:48):

Yeah,

Laci (00:14:49):

Leave it all in. It’s all gold.

Matt (00:14:50):

Okay.

Laci (00:14:51):

I’ll be right one day. You just got to say enough words. No,

Matt (00:14:54):

I think you’re right. Hey, we have a Patreon load-bearing beams do com slash

Laci (00:14:58):

No. Oh, I dunno if this was the time to plug it. I don’t know if I’m at my best right now, but Okay.

Matt (00:15:01):

Patreon.com/load bring beams to catch that Royal Tenon Bombs episode. Also, we have a bonus episode where we’re going to be covering the Black Mirror episode Nose Dive, starring Bryce Dallas Howard, where she takes a nose dive oh $5 a month. We’ll get you two bonus episodes a month. We have a bonus video where we talked about things from movies that are a little different from real life. For example,

Laci (00:15:24):

They’re kind of

Matt (00:15:25):

Moish. You can hear all of our examples, but my favorite is nobody feeds fish in real life the way they feed their fish in the movies where they just carelessly dump out the fish food into the tank, the fishes would die. But check out that video on our Twitter, our blue sky, our TikTok, and our Instagram, and let us know some of your examples of these things that not bother you just, Hey, I noticed that

Laci (00:15:44):

Just every time it’s on the screen, it’s done too big. Can we just dial it back to the point that when someone does say bye on a phone call, I’m like, oh, they say bye. They say goodbye to the person they wrong.

Matt (00:15:56):

We forgot to mention that one. Yes,

Laci (00:15:57):

Because I don’t know that that’s overdone. It’s just done wrong, right? I mean, overdone like driving a car. Yeah, that’s overdone. But it It’s almost underdone. Tell grandma bye. How

Matt (00:16:08):

About this? Fuck. I think I’m surprised when somebody answers the phone and says hello in a movie.

Laci (00:16:13):

Yes.

Matt (00:16:14):

It’s not. Yeah,

Laci (00:16:15):

You’re using the phone. All wrong movie people. This is why you’re so upset.

Matt (00:16:19):

I’ve never not answered the phone. Hello? Just confused

Laci (00:16:24):

What’s going on. Checking vibes. Hey, are we having a good call? Yeah, I’m scared of the phone.

Matt (00:16:57):

Let’s get into the history of the firm. So Hollywood had a feeding frenzy for legal thrillers, Laci, and I was trying to pinpoint where this started and I could not necessarily, is there a movie that kicked it off? I mean, maybe I’d say the accused in 1988 where Jodi Foster won an Oscar for playing a woman who is assaulted, and it’s basically a trial movie, but I have a bunch of examples here on the screen. Presumed innocent 1990, if you could mend 1992 in the name of the Father disclosure, primal Fear Sleepers, a Civil Action Double Jeopardy, the devil’s advocate. But in a way, I think that this sort of parallels the paranoid thrillers of the seventies

Matt (00:17:41):

Where you had movies like The Conversation, the Parallax View, three Days of the Condor, Dave, the Jackal, all the president’s men,

Laci (00:17:47):

And you say, these are what people in high positions of power who are paranoid, and it turns out they’re right or wrong. What are you saying?

Matt (00:17:53):

The paranoid thrillers usually involved CIA conspiracies surveillance spies. But it was a paranoid time, and you can draw a very clear lunch. First we have the Kennedy assassination, we have Watergate, and we are learning what the CIA and the FBI are doing, and this is informing the kinds of movies that are getting made.

Laci (00:18:14):

You know what else though, during this window of movies is also when you’ve got your most sensational court cases that are being filmed in real time like OJ Simpson and JonBenet Ramsey, or the idea of being in court becomes sexy or becomes something we are all paying attention to. So let’s make a movie around that. People are going to go see it. You can get this over with in two hours where we’re waiting forever for these verdicts.

Matt (00:18:41):

That’s true. But what’s notable, what I found notable specifically with the John Grisham is most of them don’t involve, a lot of ’em involve trials, but of the movies, I think only two are centered around trials. The others are weird things like the Firm and the Pelican Brief, which are kind of more, they’re about lawyers, but really they’re spy thrillers.

Matt (00:19:00):

Because they’re about, I’m being watched, how do I get Away?

Laci (00:19:04):

They’re about lawyers that fix things for people who have a messy want to do things legal adjacent.

Matt (00:19:14):

But what the character’s dilemma, dilemma is for most of the movies is, how am I going to get out of this situation?

Laci (00:19:19):

They accidentally bring a good boy into a bad boy’s club. They’re targeting these people for their skills and not screening them for how corrupt they are. Apparently. It’s like if you don’t bring a boy scout into this, you could have gotten a perfectly good boy from Harvard that was down to do work with the mafia, the firm.

Matt (00:19:36):

Do you think that, can you think of something though that would’ve caused America’s interest in court case? Yeah, obviously the OJ Simpson trial was huge. We’ve said it was the end of history. We just didn’t have problems in the world. So we got obsessed with OJ Simpson, but with the seventies thrillers, I don’t know. There’s probably not an actual answer.

Laci (00:19:56):

Probably the thrillers are, we feel like the people holding the strings who are like, it doesn’t matter what we do. It doesn’t matter who we vote for. The Ccia A and our own government is spying on us, and they’re not telling us the truth, and how do we ever get the power back? So maybe in this time it shifts too. Oh, you know what? Who’s got the biggest paychecks who are getting paid tons of money? These superstar attorneys, they’re shot like movie stars and they seem to get guilty people free. Right? So it’s like this idea of, well, that’s very good. Look, the idea of with enough money, you can just not go to jail. I think that’s very fascinating. So why not make a movie about attorneys for the mafia, which is so stupid, but yeah, they have to have attorneys too. This idea that follow the string pulling, right? CIA in the seventies, highly paid attorneys,

Speaker 4 (00:20:57):

The lawyer in the,

Laci (00:20:58):

Yeah, it’s specifically corporate attorney. These aren’t movies about plaintiff attorneys except for Aaron Brockovich, and that’s a very different,

Matt (00:21:05):

So going through all this list, and John Grisham, to his credit, has all kinds of different lawyers, and he himself was a

Laci (00:21:12):

Lawyer,

Matt (00:21:13):

Was a lawyer, he was a plaintiff lawyer and a criminal defense attorney, and he’s always on the little guys. His heroes are always the little guy against the big system. But you might have something there because with the greed is good, Reagan’s America corporate explosion, Wall Street…

Matt (00:21:33):

Everything is accumulating into a handful of giant corporations. And it’s like, I need to understand this new

Laci (00:21:40):

World, how stacked a roster can be for a certain kind of client. And if I’m just now starting to make money and I don’t have these connections, I can’t get the same kind of legal coverage and safety as these other people,

Matt (00:21:53):

Or even if I’m not in that world, I see that things are happening. The biggest companies are getting bigger taxes on the rich and on corporations are just dropping. Where in the fifties, the richest people got taxed at 90%, and that’s unfathomable today. But yeah, in the eighties is really when that starts accelerating, we can’t make ’em blow enough. And you just get this sense and this creeping anxiety that the most powerful are just getting so much more powerful. And I don’t feel in control of any of it. I don’t even feel like I can wrap my head around what’s going on here. And so enters the lawyer who maybe can be my avatar and figure this out. And John Grisham,

Laci (00:22:36):

Hey, he’s a handsome fellow

Matt (00:22:37):

Who exploded as this new literary star in the nineties. So who is John Grisham? Well,

Laci (00:22:46):

A man that loves to put an article,

Matt (00:22:48):

He sure

Laci (00:22:49):

Does before the rest of the name of his book,

Matt (00:22:51):

He sure does. Here I have this quote from him from a New York Times interview with him in 2022, and he is sort of commenting on this era of the legal thriller quote in the 1990s, for about five years in a row, my agent would take my latest manuscript, Pelican brief, the client, the chamber, the rainmaker to Hollywood, get the studios in a room and have an auction. And when they paid, they paid millions. I don’t know what was actually said because I wasn’t there, but it was like Michael Kreon got this amount. We want more. It was back and forth. We were gaming the system big time. It was working beautifully until it stopped. I sold the film rights to the runaway jury in 1986. That’s the last one I remember to New Regency for a record amount. I can’t get a fraction of that today. You can say, well, we choked the Golden Goose, but all those films made money. Then Hollywood changed. I don’t understand that world. Nobody understands that world. There’s no rules. We learned years ago, you don’t believe a word until they start filming. Runaway jury was actually the last big contract I got.

(00:23:46):

I helped write the script, which was a huge mistake. Joel Schumacher was the director. We had Sean Connery, Gwyneth Paltrow, Edward Norton, ready to start filming. It was a done deal, and Joel Schumacher jumped off the bus. The whole cast walked away. It took years to make that

Laci (00:23:59):

Movie, but that’s how you get John Cusack. Hello, the Beautiful man.

Matt (00:24:03):

I didn’t realize that Joel Schumacher was because runaway jury is 2003. It’s like five years since, but after the last John Grisha movie was made, and it felt like a relic of an earlier time,

Speaker 5 (00:24:14):

That movie,

Matt (00:24:15):

I watched it last week. I saw it in theaters and all these movies. My verdict is pretty good, pretty good. It’s fun. I don’t know. I a lot of fun watching it. Gene Ackman’s being evil in it, and y’all have to see it. But yeah, there was this feeding frenzy for his novels in particular, and then it stopped. Now he didn’t stop. He still writes one legal thriller a year. It sells millions and millions of copies. He’s one of the most successful authors in the world, and I feel like, at least to me, who’s not plugged into the world of book talk or whatever, I feel like there’s no cultural penetration for this at all. He’s just like all of those airport writers who pump out one novel a year, unlike Stephen King, who also writes one or two novels a year and almost everything, he’s

Laci (00:24:58):

Still alive. Good for him.

Matt (00:25:00):

Almost everything he writes gets adapted into a movie or a TV show, still

Laci (00:25:05):

One a year.

Matt (00:25:06):

Jesus Christ, sometimes usually two. He has a book coming out in two months. I’m excited about it. John Grisham grew up in South Haven, Mississippi, a suburb of Memphis. I went to South Haven to see the White Stripes in 2007. It ended up being the last ever White Stripes concert. How about that? I was there for history

Laci (00:25:24):

Connected, I think. So

Matt (00:25:25):

He went to college at Mississippi State, graduated, got his law degree at Ole Miss, and then he started practicing law. But he said he was not a very good lawyer. He was not very successful. He dreamed of being a trial lawyer. He loved the pageantry, the Atticus Finch type, and that’s what he wanted to be, but it ultimately didn’t work out for him. So at the same time, he got into politics and he was elected as a Democrat to the Mississippi House of Representatives

(00:25:52):

From 83 to 1990. Here’s what he said in that same 2022 article of his time in the Mississippi legislature, at that time, I was, I’m not going to say conservative, I was a moderate Democrat Today. That person doesn’t exist in the South. If I ran today, I would hope that I would run as a progressive Democrat and I would not get elected. I have friends who hold public office in Mississippi who had to switch from Democrat to Republican to keep their jobs. If you have the D by your name, you’re not going to be elected. It has changed dramatically in the last 30 years. So I feel like I’ve one specific lawyer I’ve worked with who I won’t name very much. I feel like that’s the kind of political type you are, which is a southern Democrat who’s progressive on a bunch of stuff and is very old fashioned in a lot of other ways,

Laci (00:26:42):

Performatively, old fashioned even. You just know what is said. And then you Trojan horse, the rest.

Matt (00:26:48):

Yeah, his law career was not working out very well. He was making more money being a state legislator than a lawyer, state legislator in Mississippi back then, and still the case in Louisiana. At least it’s a part-time, which I cannot believe it, people who make the laws of the states, it’s only a part-time job. But yeah, he would just hang out at court and he started attending this trial, this criminal trial that he got very interested in, and he said

Laci (00:27:11):

It was a pelican.

Matt (00:27:12):

He wrote this in a 2010 column for the New York Times, like most small town lawyers. I dreamed of the big case, and in 1984, it finally arrived, but this time the case wasn’t mine as usual. I was loitering around the courtroom pretending to be busy. But what I was really doing was watching a trial involving a young girl who had been beaten and raped. Her testimony was gut wrenching, graphic, heartbreaking and riveting. Every juror was crying. I remember staring at the defendant and wishing I had a gun and like that. A story was born, quote,

Laci (00:27:40):

Which story?

Matt (00:27:41):

That is the origin of a time to kill,

Laci (00:27:42):

A time to kill,

Matt (00:27:43):

Which yeah, he wrote in his spare time over the course of three years, wrote this case in real life, the trial he was attending, it was a white girl raped by a black man. He decided to flip that in the book and have a black girl raped by racist white man. He wrote a main character, Jake Brigance, who is just him. He’s just John Grisham in the novel who’s going to defend the father, the black father of the girl who is assaulted, who goes and kills the rapists and defends him. It took him three years to write. It was rejected repeatedly until a very small publishing house signed him and printed 5,000 copies. It did not sell well at all. But the day after he finished writing a Time To Kill, he started working on the firm and he said he had based this idea on a law school buddy of his who was getting scouted by all the big law firms and telling him about that world. And he said, that was never his life, but he imagined what it would be like. And so yeah, he wrote this book, and before it was even sold to a publisher, it was sold to Paramount Studios who purchased it for $600,000. It was published, sold a million and a half copies that made him an instantaneous star. And then his earlier book then became a bestseller at that point, and he followed that up with the Pelican Brief, the client

(00:29:06):

For seven consecutive years, he had the bestselling book of every year. So Pelican Brief and the client Get Made into Movies is a time to Kill the Chamber, the rainmaker, and then runaway jury all get movie adaptations. And to bring it back to the seventies paranoid thrillers. What’s interesting is in several of these cases, they went and got the directors from this seventies to make these John Grisham meditation. Sidney Pollock, who directed the firm, directed three days of the Condor. Francis Ford Coppola, who directed the conversation, did the Rainmaker and Alan Pula, who did all the president’s Men did Pelican Brief. So Sidney Pollock directs the firm just briefly. I mean, he was a very successful director from the new Hollywood movement. They shoot horses, don’t they? Fritos of the Condor. Tootsie one best picture and best director at the Oscars for Out of Africa, which is a notoriously one of those terrible best picture winners. I saw it when I was a teenager. I don’t know a thing about it. I can’t remember a thing about it. I considered watching it again and I was like, it’s a three hour movie where Meryl Streep plays a white lady who inherits a plantation in Kenya, and she learns that her black servants are people too,

Laci (00:30:18):

And

Matt (00:30:18):

Then has a romance with Robert Redford, who plays a big game hunter,

Laci (00:30:22):

Not a black servant,

Matt (00:30:23):

And people are like 13 Oscars. Yes,

Laci (00:30:26):

You’ve talked about people in Africa.

Matt (00:30:28):

Yeah. Anyway, also Sidney Pollock, delightful actor. We just watched Michael Clayton over the weekend, and he’s so great in that movie as an actor, great in Eyes Wide, shut

Laci (00:30:39):

Cetera. That’s it. Yep. And

Matt (00:30:42):

Death Becomes Her. Death Becomes Her. He’s so funny in that. We’ll, just check in with Tom Cruise, who was 30 years at Old at the time after the Risky Business. In all the right moves era of the early eighties, he became the world’s biggest movie star with Top Gun and Cocktail Rain Man, Dave’s of Thunder, and then Days of Thunder. And then Dave’s of Thunder was a podcast you show your podcast then tries to get that Oscar works with

Laci (00:31:09):

Get It Boy

Matt (00:31:10):

Prestige Directors like Oliver Stone for Born on the 4th of July.

Laci (00:31:13):

It’s hard to get it.

Matt (00:31:15):

Sidney Pollock for the firm interview with The Vampire with Neil Jordan, Jerry McGuire with Cameron Crow, eyes Wide Shut

Laci (00:31:21):

Did get it with Jerry McGuire.

Matt (00:31:22):

He got a nomination. He’s gotten three Oscar Oscar nominations for Born in the 4th of July,

Laci (00:31:25):

But not one.

Matt (00:31:26):

He’s never won. Jerry McGuire and Magnolia,

Laci (00:31:29):

They’re going to save him. They’re going to save him for that prestige one. I mean, he’s near dead. This man keeps doing all of his own stunts. Give him the Oscar,

Matt (00:31:36):

The scuttlebutt on the street is because the Mission Impossible movie that’s coming out this year that that’s going to be his last, I’m going to try to kill myself on screen. And after that, he’s going to go back to being a real actor to, he’s going to go back to trying to

Laci (00:31:48):

Win an Oscar.

Matt (00:31:49):

That’s

Laci (00:31:49):

Just mean, man. He definitely, you’ve been around this long. Just give him one.

Matt (00:31:55):

I mean, I’d give him one for the Mission Impossible movies. He’s great. He’s so great in those. But I think he just hasn’t worked with a Paul Thomas Anderson type director in a long time. Or Michael Mann, when he directed him collateral,

Laci (00:32:08):

Let himself be a little vulnerable,

Matt (00:32:10):

A

Laci (00:32:10):

Little less Tom,

Matt (00:32:11):

A little less safe, a little. Don’t do your

Laci (00:32:14):

Tricks. A Vanilla Sky, which I always mention. I think we just need to cover the movie. I don’t ever stop talking about

Matt (00:32:19):

It. I would do it. I think of that as the Cameron Crowe movie I like, but I haven’t seen it in a long time. Anyway, that’s the firm. That’s our history of the firm.

Laci (00:32:27):

This movie’s fun, guys.

Matt (00:32:28):

Oh wait, you know what? I have one more thing. Legacy of the firm, a Canadian produced sequel TV series aired in 2012 on NBC, this series where Josh Lucas plays Mitch mc. Dear, it’s 10 years after the events of the firm. Mitch McTeer has a new firm and it’s getting a hostile takeover by a shady new firm.

Laci (00:32:51):

How can you be hostilely taken over if you don’t want it?

Matt (00:32:53):

I don’t know, canceled after one season. And then in 2023, John Grisham published a sequel called The Exchange. The reviews were bad. That’s

Laci (00:33:04):

The something like et, you just got to leave it as ET leaves off the ship.

Matt (00:33:09):

Well, yes,

Laci (00:33:10):

There’s no sequel where it makes it better.

Matt (00:33:12):

I would’ve liked to have read a more recent John Grisham novel to see did he improve at things like characters, like making characters be distinct, but why? He’s one of those authors who every single character talks the exact same way. I

Laci (00:33:25):

Got it, but I’m saying he’s been rewarded heavily. Why I wouldn’t go changing. There are probably people who, how simple. This is easy to read. It’s an airport book. You want to be fan with you. Oh,

Matt (00:33:35):

Just improve as a writer. Do you get better at the little things? No, no,

Speaker 5 (00:33:39):

No.

Matt (00:33:39):

Not all characters have to speak the exact same way. No. Okay, nevermind. All right. So the firm Firm, let me ask you straight at the top, Laci. It is our background, our professional background is law firms. We’ve spent a lot of time in law firms. In fact, you more than me. I’ve worked on the plaintiff and defense side, but you spent a long, long time working in a big corporate law office. How do you feel like this movie gets, does it have the very similitude, does it have an attention for the detail of the corporate legal world?

Laci (00:34:49):

It doesn’t do anything that makes me be taken out of it or there’s no fatal thing that it does wrong. But this is a tax firm run by old white stuffy men. And my experience is a women owned law firm, and we really leaned into that. So the vibe is different, I’d say. I mean, it succeeds at being a law firm movie. I’d say that. And the needing to enter a billing code to use the copy machine. That was my favorite detail

Matt (00:35:22):

In the book. John Grisham goes on for like 25 pages about that, this newfangled thing. It’s incredible. I need to charge my client to make a copy. I guess this was a new invention and he probably had not worked in an office. That was a thing where you have to, folks, when you work in a law office, every second of everything you do has to be charged to a client.

Laci (00:35:44):

If you could bill a shit, when you take one,

Matt (00:35:47):

They put, that’s why you have to be thinking about your client while you do that. And then you go, in my experience, I worked at a corporate firm that was a huge, huge firm, and I feel like the culture is exactly representative. Everybody’s there super early, and I was too. And I felt like, well, that’s my value is I can get here real early. I’ve always been good at getting places on time. In fact, I can be early. They’ll always see me here early, which is very different on the plaintiff side where you’re not getting paid for those hours. So what’s the point of being there?

Laci (00:36:21):

It’s a complete, I mean, culture shock. It was 13 years into working on the corporate defense side before I experienced plaintiff, and it felt gross. You would think the opposite were true, but the way that they treat finances like support and how to make sure you’ve got what you need to work and to make sure you’re making a good case. It’s like none of that I understand. It’s just not rewarded. If you don’t, you’re not going to get paid by that client because they win something. You’ve done all of it for free. It’s a fucked up system.

Matt (00:36:57):

On the defense side, you’re paid by a wealthy corporation no matter what you do. In fact, you overcharge them, which is what this movie ultimately ends up being about is they’re overbilling us.

Laci (00:37:06):

I’d rather you say, I didn’t overcharge. I had no control over those kinds of things.

Matt (00:37:10):

But the firm is overcharging. I

Laci (00:37:12):

Take your meaning.

Matt (00:37:12):

These corporate clients, which I say, go ahead. Yes, please. It’s, see,

Laci (00:37:16):

We were a good law firm,

Matt (00:37:18):

But the scene where he gets there early in the morning and there’s already attorneys there, but it’s in this case, they’re doing some espionage.

Laci (00:37:25):

Yeah, I’d say he gets the opposite of rewarded for showing up early. When he does, the instinct makes sense. But he’s there and he just fucking sits there. And then he is made fun of and looked at strangely.

Matt (00:37:37):

But the book does do a good job of capturing the workaholic culture where you are just killing yourself. You’re working 80 hours and billing a hundred hours all for fucking what? Fucking save some money on somebody’s taxes. It’s all bullshit.

Laci (00:37:57):

I don’t think that’s why they’re doing it. I think they’re doing it so that they get a nice bonus at the

Matt (00:38:00):

Well, yes, I know. But in terms of what you’re actually creating, what you’re actually creating in the world is I’m saving some guy tax money.

Laci (00:38:06):

That’s why I can’t believe you’re going to make me bring this up. So our kid is obsessed with something called Mouthwashing right now. Oh my God. And wait. But the reason it’s called that is the most interesting thing about it. It’s basically this crew that is on this spaceship, and they are told that they’re transporting just the most important shit. And so it’s okay that some of them are being abused and some of them are dying on the ship and are being horribly maimed. It’s basically like, look, this your most important thing to do. This is why you’re going through all this. And then they discover one day that all they’re doing is lugging back and forth different products like mouthwash. That’s the one they open. So they decide that what they do in life is called mouthwashing.

Laci (00:38:51):

Anyway, it is a critique on, are you fucking kidding me? All of this to get some fucking guy on this other planet, some

Matt (00:39:00):

Mouthwash? Sure.

Laci (00:39:01):

You don’t even need to use it.

Matt (00:39:03):

It’s what we’re all engaged in all the time. Yes, for me to get two day shipping on something from Amazon that I’m not even going to open for days and days and days

Laci (00:39:11):

Going to sit there and piss me off. I don’t know what that

Matt (00:39:13):

Is, the amount of energy that has to be expelled into the universe for that to happen. But yeah, when I first started working out of college, working for the law firm where you and I met, and I felt like this is a place where people are, grownups are paid to go and

Laci (00:39:30):

Grown up,

Matt (00:39:31):

Go, I don’t know, tap their fingers and stuff. I don’t understand what we do, what we create. I’m supposed to be billing my time, but they basically said, just make up a number. It’s fine.

Laci (00:39:40):

Okay, but let’s say that’s because you were a billable employee. You were a paralegal. Not everyone at a law firm is doing that. I didn’t,

Matt (00:39:47):

This piano score in this movie by Dave Gruen, I find pretty obnoxious. I think it is the Achilles heel of the movie.

Laci (00:39:55):

It is like, feel this way, feel this way. Do you want to feel this way? What about this way? Feel this way, feel this way. Is that how you experienced it?

Matt (00:40:02):

Well, that’s what scores are supposed to do.

Laci (00:40:04):

Okay. But they’re not supposed to show you how sweaty they are. You see what I’m saying?

Matt (00:40:09):

No,

Laci (00:40:10):

I feel like this one’s working too hard and not getting it done.

Matt (00:40:12):

It’s working too hard to evoke a spirit, and the spirit is just, Hey, aware the firm. I feel like that’s the eighties, but that’s not what the movie is because eventually it transitions into this kind of horror score, which I think is very effective when Tom Cruise is literally being chased by the jigsaw killer, and then the score is really working. But mostly the score is very bouncy piano. I don’t

Laci (00:40:35):

I’m ever going to offer my opinion on this podcast again to be so shut down and so wrong at your little quiz.

Matt (00:40:41):

Look, we’ve been doing this eight years, and one time I finally disagreed with you.

Laci (00:40:45):

Oh, I can’t wait to pull up the record. I need a court reporter in

Matt (00:40:49):

Here Cinematography by John Seale. This movie looks incredible. I think his work really elevates it. I think also shooting on location in Memphis is great. One great thing about these movies about legal thrillers, or maybe let’s say the John Grisham legal thrillers is they take place in cities that you don’t often get to see in movies.

Laci (00:41:08):

That is cool.

Matt (00:41:09):

Yeah, you don’t see Memphis in movies, but when you see it, you’re like, oh, there’s a pyramid and a mud island and a monorail, and yeah, we should always be here. There’s ducks running around this hotel. It’s a great place.

Laci (00:41:19):

Just at the top. Oh, wait, through the lobby, you’re right. The Peabody

Matt (00:41:22):

Tom Cruise, gene Hackman, the firm is the two actors above the title making you think, oh, this is a two hander. The other fatal flaw of the movie, though, that gives Gene Hackman way more to do than his character has in the book. Still. It’s like, I just need more Hackman. This really should be a two. This should just be Tom Cruise v Gene Hackman, the whole

Laci (00:41:41):

Movie. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it gives a little something to everyone to do. I’ve never seen so much script spread out. I don’t know. It just felt like every few minutes a new person popped in and I cared about them a little bit.

Matt (00:41:54):

Do you have a favorite performance?

Laci (00:42:02):

I think as we go along, I will remember. I mean, I’m sure it’s Jean Hackman. Oh, about. The wife was good too.

Matt (00:42:07):

Yeah, she’s good. So Tom Cruise is playing basketball. He’s running around campus with books. That’s how he’s busy. Probably has an apple in his mouth at one point.

Laci (00:42:16):

He’s a pig.

Matt (00:42:17):

Well, apple in the mouth while you have stuff in your hands. That’s how a person is busy. They can’t even hold the apple.

Laci (00:42:23):

No. They

Matt (00:42:24):

Got

Laci (00:42:24):

A bite and run.

Matt (00:42:25):

He’s interviewing for his law job for, he hasn’t even graduated law school yet, and they’re interviewing him to be a lawyer.

Laci (00:42:32):

He must be quite the pajamas.

Matt (00:42:34):

Yes. And some guy’s interviewing him, and he’s like, it’s very impressive that you’re going to be graduating top 5%. And also the thing about the law is, and he’s like, top five, sir, top people, top five people. Do you have somewhere to be Tom Cruise? You keep looking at your watch. And he’s like, well, actually, I have to get back to my job. I’m on my lunch break. And we see he’s waiting tables for all these stuffed shirt, Hollywood, Harvard legacy fucks. He’s

Laci (00:43:01):

Dutiful. He cares about his sworn allegiance to do a thing.

Matt (00:43:08):

Well, true. But it’s supposed to make you understand, he’s going to Harvard and most people who go to Harvard are from, he’s

Laci (00:43:13):

A working man,

Matt (00:43:14):

Elite, evil families that go back thousands of years of doing evil, but he’s working at a diner.

Laci (00:43:20):

He’s made it in on the merits

Matt (00:43:22):

And literally having to wait on these people. And what we find out about the firm is they target people. They target working class people who don’t have elite

Laci (00:43:30):

Connections. I don’t know that I noticed that. To be fair, this movie throws a lot at

Matt (00:43:34):

You. Yes.

Laci (00:43:35):

I think I could watch it a few more terms.

Matt (00:43:36):

They don’t put a fine point on that.

Laci (00:43:38):

No, you’re right. That makes perfect sense. Definitely makes sense. How they had that perfectly calibrated hooker lined up in the Cayman Islands with her. Just wanted to

Matt (00:43:50):

Feel, well, how Hollywood starlets in the twenties and thirties were plucked out of Iowa and then brought over to Hollywood and then systematically abused, or

Laci (00:44:01):

You’re so right.

Matt (00:44:01):

What you see with a star like Britney Spears who comes from a working class family and then gets abused by the system versus stars who seem to have a lot of success. And then you look into it and it’s like, well, their families were entertainment families. They sort of had connections. This isn’t a bad thing, like the Eilish, this isn’t a bad thing. This is just saying

Laci (00:44:22):

Certain people get protected and others, and there’s a pretty easy reason why once you look into it.

Matt (00:44:26):

Yes. But yeah, getting courted by all these big firms from all the big cities making big money offers to go to their big law firms. And he arrives for an interview at a hotel with Oliver Lambert, the senior partner played by Hal Holbrook. And his bow tie, a very,

Laci (00:44:43):

His bow tie is not built.

Matt (00:44:44):

Warm gentleman. Oh, I’m just a nice old man. Nice to meet you. How

Laci (00:44:48):

Have you tried my popcorn?

Matt (00:44:52):

This is my other guy. Let’s see, what is this other guy’s name? This my other guy, Royce McKnight is played by Jerry Hardin from the X-Files, played Deep Throat on the X-Files. That’s the only other thing I remember him from. Also, there’s Lamar Quinn played by Terry Kinney in this scene. So I mean, one thing that’s great fun about this movie is it’s just lots of people in rooms having conversations. This is the first of

Laci (00:45:13):

Many. Yes. We love that. We love that. We love the politics. We love to feel the tone shift of like you’re saying something I like, we’re all agreeing, you’ve stepped off over the line, now you’re backtracking you. But this first conversation, polite all

Matt (00:45:27):

Around,

Laci (00:45:28):

It’s a joyous time,

Matt (00:45:29):

A conversation in rooms. It’s like a great slice of pie. The only thing that can improve it that can turn this scene ala mode, the scoop of ice cream is a folder with some files in it that makes the scene even better. We’re not there yet, though.

Laci (00:45:42):

We’ll get there.

Matt (00:45:43):

He’s like, well, how are you doing Mitch mcd? What a name

Laci (00:45:46):

Dear. My

Matt (00:45:47):

Name is Mitch mc. He’s

Laci (00:45:48):

So endearing. This Mitch.

Matt (00:45:52):

Hey,

Laci (00:45:52):

More like Mc deer in the headlights

Matt (00:45:54):

Kind of. Well, they’re like, so how are you feeling? He’s like, well, I never know what to say in these interviews. I just get a little tongue tied and Hal Holbrook’s like, what other situations do you get tongue tied in? Bitch,

Laci (00:46:07):

You’re asshole, sir.

Matt (00:46:08):

He’s like, well, with my wife, whenever she walks into a room, I’m swept away by the majesty of her angel dust. You know what I’m saying?

Laci (00:46:17):

It’s important to them that they, you know what? That was a red flag for them that they missed. They want a guy tied down, not a guy who’s in love. Oh, that’s interest. You’ve got to be willing to keep her at home and you’ve got to be not so like, well, you’ve got to be someone that can corrupt and if they’re going to use a hooker to do it, this was already a tricky thing that this was risky. And also they’re more capable of reuniting it or becoming a team using each other as leverage. Also, she’s wealthy. Did they not look into her at all? Right. That was kind of stupid. Guys, you’re slipping. You really

Matt (00:46:53):

Are. And also they don’t know his brothers in prison.

Laci (00:46:56):

All he had to do was

Matt (00:46:57):

Lie their due as they ask him. And he said, no, no brothers,

Laci (00:46:59):

He’s, they have a bunch of guys. What are they doing

Matt (00:47:03):

In the book? Sorry to keep bringing up the book in this scene. They already know about his brother and everything. And you also get the POV of the people interviewing him, and they’re like, they knew he would lie about his brother, but they found this an acceptable lie.

Matt (00:47:16):

That kind of thing. So yeah, we’re a small firm in Memphis, Mitch, but we’re like a family. Stability is very important to us. Now here, here’s an envelope and it has an offer. It includes a bonus schedule, a low interest mortgage, and will you Mercedes?

Laci (00:47:31):

Well, okay, that makes it sound like he has to pay for the Mercedes. He doesn’t. They’re paying for the Mercedes, but it’s a lease.

Speaker 4 (00:47:39):

Right.

Laci (00:47:39):

Just wanted to make that clear. Also, country club access. And then something else interesting that I thought was like, oh, I would like this a membership to the Kroger. It’s not that

Matt (00:47:48):

Jelly of the month. I mean low interest mortgage from my employer. That

Laci (00:47:59):

Is some skeezy shit. That is some company town shit. You just get to pick your dwelling. You’re so right. And don’t worry, the phone guy that does everybody’s phones for the company is going to come out and help you whether you need it or not.

Matt (00:48:11):

But I was thinking about, I don’t know that I’ve seen a surveillance movie like this in a while. What would you do in a 2025? The firm. It’s so easy for your company to spy on. You just, oh, we got his wifi password. We can listen to everything

Laci (00:48:26):

Now. Or here’s your company phone. Also, we’re tracking everything ing. You’re texting and we hear all your calls. Your calls are being recorded and sent straight to us. My point is, who has the time? Who’s in charge? You need a high level person that’s not going to talk monitoring all this shit. So I’m sure they’d use AI by now. Look for these keyword. I’m scared with Key. Key. No, you’re

Matt (00:48:49):

Right. And then to be making so many mistakes. So they have to hire a guy to read the AI and decipher, but that guy’s using AI to decipher the ai.

Laci (00:48:56):

Well, I mean when you really zoom out from this, they are tight knit, but they are small. I mean, they’ve got two goons, but they can only afford the two. So they’ve got the walrus guy who’s a half goon, half in the office driving a car guy. It’s not that many people, but I guess at the end of the day, they’re only trying to control, it’s like basketball. You only need one person on one person, I guess. Who that man-to-man coverage. That’s fucking football. I’m all the sports right now. That

Matt (00:49:22):

Works in basketball too.

Laci (00:49:23):

All right, cool.

Matt (00:49:25):

So

Laci (00:49:25):

I guess they’ve got three goons and three junior associates.

Matt (00:49:28):

No. So the way this works is they hire a guy, they shower him with goodies,

Laci (00:49:36):

Give him a mentor.

Matt (00:49:37):

Yes,

Laci (00:49:37):

That’s a handler.

Matt (00:49:38):

And for the first few years you work, you’re doing legitimate work and you’re doing a ton of it. And then eventually they reveal to you actually we’re a mob or a mafia law firm. Sorry. And you’re complicit and you’re

Laci (00:49:50):

Incriminated. Yes. And by then they’ve already coaxed you into having children. And those kids are already enrolled in private schools or whatever system they have already worked out for that. You’re just so in it. That’s why, I mean, I’m jumping all over the place, but the pure devastation you see in Lamar’s face a few scenes from now, it’s that it’s how do I get my kids out of this school without dying?

Matt (00:50:13):

Well, and we’ve gotten coma on you and the fucking skull and bone societies when to get initiation into the club involves jacking off into geronimo’s skull. It’s like everybody here sees that you’ve done that, and now we all know that you’ve done it. And the point of all of this is we know each other’s dark secret and we could turn on each other at any time. But what keeps this going is that we won’t do it. It’s like that

Laci (00:50:41):

Brotherhood,

Matt (00:50:42):

That’s the scheme. But when they get a new guy and it’s like all the security resources are on that guy until we know he’s taken care of permanently. That’s why it’s like there’s a team of people whose whole job is just to monitor him because that’s how the scheme works. They all focus on one person at a time for years and years, and then they’ll move on to a new guy.

Laci (00:51:01):

Yeah, you can just guess that Lamar was probably the one before him or this kazinski, but that two people defected at the same time that we find out later. We don’t get any sense of how old they are, how long in the process they’ve been. I think I need to watch this movie three more times.

Matt (00:51:19):

They’re associates who were on the partner track and presumably they found out

Laci (00:51:22):

Fine, but so is Lamar. So that’s what I’m saying. Was Lamar one ring up from them or was he in the middle of them and

Matt (00:51:30):

He was in between Mitch? Yeah, he was in between them and Mitch. But this is coming from the book. The movie could be its own totally different world.

Laci (00:51:37):

Totally different,

Matt (00:51:38):

Totally different. So here’s some Chinese food is the next scene when we go to their shitty dirt bag. Apartment. Looks like a dump

Laci (00:51:46):

As soon as you see a radiator. Then poor people

Matt (00:51:50):

That Tom Cruise, that Mitch shares with his wife Abby, played by Jean Triple Horn and their dog hearsay. And she comes into the apartment and he showers her with kisses, but then she does her sexy prank. Excuse me. My husband’s going to come home soon. And he’s like, fuck your husband and fuck me. He’s like, here I have Chinese food where it’s a celebration. Now we will admit a very embarrassing detail here, Laci, since I read this book at age 15, I always had the fantasy that I would sell a novel or something and you would come home and I’d have Chinese food and I’d be like, good news by here’s some chow meat

Laci (00:52:28):

For you. You didn’t realize you’d get a stomach flu after having some Chinese food seven years ago and swear it off for the rest of your life. So are you saying that if you do sell a novel can finally start having Chinese food again together as available?

Matt (00:52:40):

We just don’t have good Chinese food where we live.

Laci (00:52:43):

That’s not what you blame it on.

Matt (00:52:45):

That is what I blame it on.

Laci (00:52:46):

Even bad Chinese food is good.

Matt (00:52:48):

That’s not true. I thought that was true. No, when we lived in New Orleans, there’s some great Chinese places in New Orleans now we live in a suburb with no good Chinese places and I’m starved. Let’s go get your fucking Chinese right now. I’ll put Chinese in your mouth right now. Yeah, baby. Okay, good. It’s our anniversary. Oh, I meant to say that. Did we mention that

Laci (00:53:04):

We’re going to have Chinese food?

Matt (00:53:05):

Well, we’ll some Chinese for our anniversary, but there’s no good places. That’s

Laci (00:53:08):

The problem. Oh my God. He keeps saying it. He really is on the Dum,

Matt (00:53:11):

So he is like, they don’t know that I deleted that part.

Laci (00:53:15):

Matt has taken some cough medicine, so if he sounds not like himself, he’s not.

Matt (00:53:20):

She yelled at me for taking too long to say something. All right. So that was my fantasy. I sold my novel. They want to publish Generation Y. They’re going to publish a million and a half copies. Now it’s, look, have you seen the download numbers on our enemy? My episode? Holy

Laci (00:53:38):

Shit works for me. You told us that we were getting Monet we’re finally able to be monetized by YouTube. You could have definitely got me Wong Boys for that. Some Chinese food.

Matt (00:53:51):

Anyway, it looks incredible. This Chinese food looks incredible. The other thing is about the Chinese food, where we live is it doesn’t come in these containers, which is bullshit.

Laci (00:53:59):

I mean it rarely does ever.

Matt (00:54:01):

There was a place in Baton Rouge that did, my favorite Chinese place I’ve ever eaten was in Baton Rouge and it came in these containers. Oh, I miss it. That place isn’t open anymore. But he hasn’t even opened the envelope that has the offer in it. He’s like, here, you do it. She’s like, you haven’t even opened it yet. And he’s like, no. But they told me that they saw the other, they hired an ex masad agent to torture all the other people I was interviewing with and find out how much they’re offering me. And they took the highest offer and added 20%. So I’m guessing. And she opened and she’s like, ma, ma. Alright. So plus they’re giving us a low interest mortgage. Now another thing in the book, the book mentions what this low interest mortgage is 12%. We have a 5% interest mortgage. I meant to look up what were interest rates in the early nineties. Were they way higher?

Laci (00:54:48):

I think so. Well now we’re being further honeymooned. We’re going to Memphis at the top of the Peabody with the ducks and everything so they can show us what they’re like in person. And now Tom Cruise’s character came from not much like we said, he is working class and what is her name?

(00:55:10):

Abby. Abby. Abby comes from money. She totally doesn’t mind downsizing and living in a shitty apartment with Mitch. So clearly she is over the finer things. Or you could take ’em or leave him. So it makes sense that he’s bouncing around on fucking cocaine, just totally dazzled by everything these guys are saying and doing. And he’s spending time with the boys. While, of course, this little lady’s been spending time with the gals and she’s noticing some red flags, some weirdly worded things. But she also sees how excited her husband is who also pretends to offer his suicide if she doesn’t agree that they will.

Matt (00:55:50):

Yeah, the parallel cordings, he’s been taken from conference room to conference room full of white men in suits. The book points out him noticing there’s no black people here and no women, but it’s not like his attitudes are very 1990.

Matt (00:56:04):

Okay, there you go. That’s Memphis for you. And then Hal Holberg just parades him around. He’s like, he’s our number one draft pick. Let’s try to impress him. It is the most, well, it is like an athlete getting recruited where they pull out all the stops for you.

Laci (00:56:22):

Well, yeah, but it’s also sad because half of them are good. Then they’ll focus on him and I’m already, I don’t know. It’s like they already know the scheme and they’ve already made it this far. Do they feel like guilt for bringing in a new person or relief? I guess you don’t stop doing all your crimes because a new person comes in. I would think your asshole should pucker up a little bit. Every time you bring a new person. I should think they should be intensely looking at him and looking for red flags. Because if this business goes under, they all go to jail. Honestly, this is a fucking shambles. I don’t think this makes any sense at all. Now that I think about it, they should all be putting him under a microscope for how scrupulous are you? Not too scrupulous because how good of an attorney do you fucking need to be to just do some crime?

Matt (00:57:12):

Yeah. I don’t know.

Laci (00:57:12):

Do they need the number one?

Matt (00:57:14):

Do you really need to be the best in the universe, I guess. But that’s the point. You need to be able to convince yourself. Well, the reason they’re paying me so much is because the best I

Laci (00:57:24):

Got. Yeah, that makes sense.

Matt (00:57:26):

But ultimately, yeah, it’s not that hard to be, or maybe it is. I’m not a white collar criminal attorney. I don’t know. I don’t know how hard it is. But meanwhile, Abby’s being courted by the lady wife of the firm. Kay.

Laci (00:57:39):

I guess she’s the most charming one they’ve got. And she reassures her. Don’t worry, it’s not forbidden to work. So it’s okay that you’re going to work

Matt (00:57:50):

Well.

Laci (00:57:52):

No, it’s fine.

Matt (00:57:52):

The firm doesn’t forbid wives to work. Well, how could they forbid wives to work? No, they don’t.

Laci (00:57:56):

That’s what I’m saying. I

Matt (00:57:57):

Love that. I love that. So yeah, she goes to Abby and Mitch meet on the roof of the Peabody. If you’ve never been to the Peabody in Memphis, they have ducks in their lobby. It’s adorable. They’d have a parade of ducks and it’s, they move from one side of the lobby to the other. That’s

Laci (00:58:17):

Because the lore is that the Peabody split their roosting place from their watering place or something. Right. So they have to walk each day from where they do their day stuff to where they do their nights. Yeah. So it’s likes like a Mia Copa.

Matt (00:58:35):

Sorry. Sorry, ducks.

Laci (00:58:37):

Sorry for your land.

Matt (00:58:39):

I remember we went to Memphis for that one night trip. That’s one of my favorite trips we’ve ever taken. I don’t even know why. It was just a nice pleasant little one night we needed to do stuff

Laci (00:58:46):

Again where we saw that band and I got a shirt that was too big.

Matt (00:58:50):

I think that was in Austin, maybe Vancouver. God, we’ve been some places.

Laci (00:58:54):

We really did rack some

Matt (00:58:55):

Places, all of it more than 10 years ago.

Laci (00:58:57):

Well, actually all of it, more than eight. I think you should do the math. Eight plus nine months.

Matt (00:59:04):

So yeah, on the roof of this hotel, Abby’s like Tom Cruise is like, Hey, isn’t this just the best fucking farm you’ve ever, you’ve ever seen me wife, wife

Laci (00:59:10):

All jacked up and fucking work here?

Matt (00:59:12):

He’s feeling so good about my lawyer. And she’s like, well, I’ve noticed some weird red flags. It’s very creepy. They said that I’m required to have a baby every 10 months and also I’m permitted to work. But they frown upon that and he’s like, well, I’ll just going to kill myself. I that kill myself.

Laci (00:59:29):

But it’s so charming when he does it.

Matt (00:59:31):

Yeah. And he’s like, they’re going to pay me 96,000 bucks. You know what that is in New York City that’s worth 150 grand in New York City. Did you ever think I would make six figures? And she says yes. And he’s a little taken aback by that. Like, oh, well fuck. So to compare it to the book again and to demonstrate why I think this is a significant improvement from the book is it just has these neat little tricks you’d learn in a basic Hollywood screenwriting seminar of you need to give these basic character details to them. Like Mitch being so

Laci (01:00:07):

Captivated or

Matt (01:00:08):

So captivated to transform himself in order to pay back his wife for the life she gave up that’s there in the book. But they really emphasize it here in the movie. And it’s kind of an obvious thing, but it’s there for a reason

Laci (01:00:22):

And it’s a very human thing for him to miss that he can hear her say, I don’t care about those things. I made this choice and took that into consideration. I don’t miss any of it. He can hear it. But as a person that didn’t come from money, I don’t think he can believe it. And so he’s kind of missing a big part of his wife’s personality and core goals, or not goals, values. And in one way it really kind of fucking sucks. I don’t think there’s anything Abby could ever tell him to make him realize, I don’t fucking care about this stuff. But he can keep saying it’s for her because he does care about it.

Matt (01:01:01):

So then we get our first look at the one of cinema’s great villains, Wilfred Brimley as d Asher, head of security for

Laci (01:01:09):

The

Matt (01:01:10):

My name’s DeVasher.

Laci (01:01:11):

Wow.

Matt (01:01:12):

He’s informing Hal of the phone calls that Mitch’s wife has made. Wait a minute. They’re monitoring their phone calls. She seems a little reluctant. Oh, she’ll come around. But they changed the conversation. We need to talk about Kazinski and Hodges. Have you spoken to our friends in Chicago? Yes. It’s not good. We’re going to have to do something. And then it cuts to Abby at school and her students are giving her a big goodbye banner. And Laci thought this meant that this is what the firm was doing about You said, we’re going to do something. We’re going to do

Laci (01:01:42):

Something about it. They know her so well that if her kids think she’s already going, she has to keep her word. They already made the banner. These kids are dumb.

Matt (01:01:53):

But no, they’re just saying goodbye to their favorite teacher. Ms. The mc deers are moving to Memphis with their little U-Haul. Their house has been furnished by the firm, and Mitch has a Mercedes. So they take a sexy drive around the city and then Mitch wakes up for his first day of work.

Laci (01:02:09):

I’d like to point out though, this is a lease. He does not own this car and they put the dog in it. You don’t do that. You don’t put the dog

Matt (01:02:15):

In it.

Laci (01:02:15):

You don’t put the dog

Matt (01:02:16):

In it.

Laci (01:02:18):

Elise means just like our phones, we can have the best of them if we want them as long as we promise to turn them in unharmed. So it’s like a

Matt (01:02:25):

Lease with an option to buy at the end. But I think fine. But I think that the reason nice cars are leased is because if you’re that rich, you don’t

Laci (01:02:31):

Keep it for that long.

Matt (01:02:32):

Don’t keep it. Yeah.

Laci (01:02:33):

Unless you’re fucking Jay Leno,

Matt (01:02:37):

He is the, well, he thinks he’s the first person in the office, but there’s strangers in the office of Mr. Kazinski. Okay, whatever.

Laci (01:02:43):

He thinks he’s going to be welcomed and pat on the back, but he feels shamed. And he’s like, okay, I’ll just go sit at my little boy’s table where I’ve already been told I’m allowed to sit sometime. And this is a very impressive, and I just haven’t been to a lot of southern law firms, I guess definitely not really old ones that are very, very traditional, but it’s just the most majestic law library slash common area. Maybe reception area, I’m not sure. But there’s so many law books with their embossed firm name on them that they need a ladder like fucking bell to get up and down. I thought law books, they go bad. They age out. So you’re always going to have a shelf of law books not accumulate a library of them. I guarantee you most of those you can’t use anymore. So I will ding them because now you could say this is tax law across many, many states, or at least like Chicago and Memphis or some of that’s why there’s so many fine, but they would be different colors. They would not all be the same. They d

Matt (01:03:49):

You hear that production designer for the firm even called out when I was working at the corporate firm with the billing codes on the copy machine. There was one morning where I showed up at like seven 15, and the senior partner there was on the elevator with me and I was like, yes,

Laci (01:04:03):

Fuck this. Why we do this guys?

Matt (01:04:07):

But I was taking the ferry to work every day. It was magical. It was magical, but it came at the same time every day. So it’s like that’s why I was early every day. It wasn’t by choice. But again, I’ve always been good at showing up at places on time, and I can be early if I want to. And that’s the value that I bring to this equation is I’ll be here, I’ll be here.

Laci (01:04:26):

Make a note of that value add. See all those blue books. Now we’re looking at the library guys. There would be no reason to have this. Many of, they only practice tax law

Matt (01:04:39):

Well, but tax encompasses everything. You never know when you don’t have the internet, you never know what kind of niche issue you might need to look

Laci (01:04:46):

Up. I’d say that they’re not throwing away expired books. And I’m saying that’s poor practice.

Matt (01:04:50):

Plus they’re doing the world’s tax codes. It could be tax law from

Laci (01:04:55):

No, and I got you and I already covered that. And what I’m saying is all of those blue ones make no sense. All of those green ones make no sense. It’d be very much more diverse in color. It’d be lots of sets, not four big sets. What this looks like are the kind of bookshelves you get in Minecraft where there’s like two patterns to pick from book and book.

Matt (01:05:14):

All right. That’s why you give this movie Two stars.

Laci (01:05:17):

No, what I do not,

Matt (01:05:20):

Mitch, is being prepped by all these attorneys. They drop in out to his office one by one like I’m Mr. Man, I’m going to prepare you for wills and trusts.

Laci (01:05:30):

Well, right, because you’re going to take the bar exam and every single one of them go in there and say, no associates ever failed the bar. I mean, that’s really a fucked up. They’ve all been given a talking point to give to him, or it’s like their turn. They all got rigged and now he’s going to get it.

Matt (01:05:45):

Yeah, exactly. And the bar exam, he’s very scared, but he’s a great student.

Laci (01:05:52):

I’m going to

Matt (01:05:53):

Knee this bar exam.

Laci (01:05:54):

I will speak from experience that the kinds of places you work, where the first day you’re there, they make you feel like you’re six months behind red. The biggest red flag, if you weren’t brought in and in your interview they say, look, we are so behind you are going to have to hit the ground running. I am sweet. It’s not our normal. We will get caught up if they don’t do that and then they honeymoon you and then do this to you fucking run. It’s not good.

Matt (01:06:24):

I guess I figured that’s just what it is in law firm.

Laci (01:06:26):

No, I’ve worked at plenty. This is not as a

Matt (01:06:29):

Lawyer,

Laci (01:06:31):

Thank you, fine. But the practices are the same. Either they wait too long to fill a position so that you are six months behind because they weren’t willing to dish out the money when they should have. That is the experience of a marketing person. And when that happens, I’m just saying there’s a way to go about it. There’s a person that comes in and he is like, look, we know we have a lot of backlog. You take the time, you need to do it right there. That’s fine. It’s okay if there’s a lot of work to do, but the kind of boss that comes in and makes sure you know are behind and being watched. That has happened two times. And both were not good experiences. And again, I started this by saying in my experience,

Matt (01:07:12):

So we get a succession of lawyers showing up to drop giant books on his desk, and then Gene Hackman like a fucking superhero

Laci (01:07:21):

Appears just knock

Matt (01:07:22):

Appears in the doorway. And you’re like, oh, right. He’s in this movie. It’s 29 minutes into the movie. Why wasn’t he at any of those parties or conference rooms where he’s being paraded around? Well, I’m Avery Tolar, let’s go to lunch.

Laci (01:07:35):

I’m the party.

Matt (01:07:38):

I’m your partner. I’m the your mentor.

Laci (01:07:41):

Let’s go to lunch. I don’t play by the rules kind of a maverick

Matt (01:07:45):

Because when they go to lunch, she’s like the firm, just so you know, the firm frowns on drinking during office hours. I’ll have a martini, have a, so we get now the whole thing about Bill, this is all about the billable hour. And if you’re sitting in traffic thinking about your client, you need to be billing them for that. In fact, you need to bill them double whatever for risk. I’ve had to bill as a paralegal and it is a fucking nightmare. For whatever reason

Laci (01:08:12):

I’ve had to bill too. But as a creative, as trial demonstrative creator,

Matt (01:08:18):

It

Laci (01:08:18):

Sucks,

Matt (01:08:19):

But why does it suck so much?

Laci (01:08:21):

Well, the wording is specific to the billing guidelines of each client. So you’re allowed to say, you have to say your full first name and your first entry, and then every other entry off that has to be Mrs. Last name. And then there are certain words you can’t use for some companies, and then other words you have to use for others. You capitalize certain words, you don’t capitalize others. And it has to use words that are substantive and are allowed to be billed. So if you’re not using those key words, it just sounds like fluff. They will scratch it and it’s like you didn’t even do it. So I did billable hours, but where I got my extensive fucking experience on this is because I worked for the name shareholder and she was in charge of reading the entire pre-bill is a bill before it goes to the client. And she would have to take the billing guidelines from every single client we’re talking about like fucking 25 clients per pre-bill and compare it to the time entries of every single billable person. And so sure, she did that in theory, but I did the pre pre-bills

(01:09:27):

And if I didn’t give her half the work to do, then I got them right back. It was the fucking bane of my existence.

Matt (01:09:34):

And for some reason, when I was being trained on how to do this, I was like, well, okay, it’s like a script and you just find the right thing and plug it in and it’s all on. It’s electronic. You just press a button on your computer when you start working on a thing and then you press a different button when you stop and then it’s all automated and no, it’s not.

Laci (01:09:48):

But you do have to describe it, right? Yeah. You’re pushing and stopping and starting for your time, but you have to adequately say it. Say who you did it for under why they asked you to do it. Is it for what action happening on the file? Was it for? Is it because they’re filing a pleading? If it’s something the client doesn’t know about? It’s flagged.

Matt (01:10:10):

Yeah. So it’s constant justifying your

Laci (01:10:12):

Job. Yes.

Matt (01:10:13):

Tell us what you’re doing all day and why in fact, make it sound really good. Make it sound narratively compelling and justifying the expense. We’re billing. Hey, you’re a 24-year-old paralegal. We’re getting paid $150 an hour for your time. You’re getting paid $15 an hour.

Laci (01:10:29):

By the way, the real fucking entry is because Pam fucking told me to do this as soon as I walked in the office day. That’s why I did it. But the actual entry is in preposition for brief and cante. You have to be aware of the actual chain of command so that the client can track it back to something they asked you to fucking do or you told them they needed to do. It is stressful,

Matt (01:10:52):

But it’s an important thread of the movie that this is what it’s all building up to is like it’s a big scam and the mafia needs to be told about it, which I love. I that idea

Laci (01:11:03):

You guys wouldn’t want to be associated with a scam would you

Matt (01:11:05):

Can

Laci (01:11:06):

Knock some heads together because you have to.

Matt (01:11:09):

So Gene Hackman is Avery Tolar and this character is in the, but this is just, Hey, have a great actor play a character, and suddenly he’s a real character and not just a name on the page, which he is in the book and literally just disappears near the end of the book. Isn’t even brought up again.

Laci (01:11:24):

And fact, it’s funny because Avery is a word I saw over and over and over again when working in an office because that is the name of the most prominent label making company, and when you are in a law firm, you label everything. Avery, Avery, Avery, Avery.

Matt (01:11:41):

Do you think that we should go try to work at a law firm again? See how things have changed since we’ve been out of the game? God,

Laci (01:11:45):

I think we will hate what’s changed and loathe what hasn’t.

Matt (01:11:48):

It’s probably all woke now.

Laci (01:11:50):

What? There’s no fucking way.

Matt (01:11:54):

So his whole deal is he sets up trusts and shit in the caveman islands for my wealthy clients. My wealthiest client is named Sonny Caps and Tom Cruise is like, yes, all sounds very normal, very good, very regular

Laci (01:12:04):

Sunny caps like kneecaps, like what the fuck? Or Sonny, because he lives in the caves doesn’t 2K,

Matt (01:12:10):

You’re saying a lot of words that sound really legit. Caveman islands trust.

Laci (01:12:13):

Then on another table

Matt (01:12:14):

Schemes

Laci (01:12:15):

In the same place they’re sitting. Oh, because it looks like the same fucking place. Matthew McConaughey had lunch in that

Matt (01:12:22):

Movie, had lunch in what movie was that?

Laci (01:12:24):

That was in the Big Short,

Matt (01:12:26):

No,

Laci (01:12:28):

No. That wasn’t the big freak Wolf of Wall Street. That’s right. Final answer. They all have lunches in place like these man.

Matt (01:12:35):

Yes. So bend the law as far as you can without breaking it.

Laci (01:12:38):

Yeah. Take let’s Dick without making it cu.

Matt (01:12:41):

In other words, I don’t want an IRS audit. We’re trying to figure out how to do

Laci (01:12:45):

It. No, he’s okay with an audit. They just don’t want him to win.

Matt (01:12:47):

That’s the next thing he said. Yeah, I don’t give a damn about an audit. I just don’t want them to win.

Laci (01:12:51):

Okay. Then use his voice when he’s saying things that he says,

Matt (01:12:53):

I was just about to say something about, we were talking about how do you do a Tom Cruise impression. Okay,

Laci (01:12:58):

So I’ve been trying.

Matt (01:12:59):

Okay,

Laci (01:13:00):

I don’t have it.

Matt (01:13:01):

Oh, well we thought

Laci (01:13:03):

Something to say.

Matt (01:13:03):

The thing that I am like a ship carrying a cargo that will never reach

Laci (01:13:08):

Pork. Yes. Yes, it is Rob Lowe’s character from community

Matt (01:13:13):

From Parks and Rec.

Laci (01:13:14):

That’s what I said.

Matt (01:13:14):

That is literally my favorite show. Literal

Laci (01:13:16):

My favorite show. Okay. Right. I don’t think Tom Cruise is the most cruise in here except for his amazing posture when he runs. There’s no way someone didn’t see that and went make that man run in every movie he’s in from now on. He looks so fast. I always find it very funny when an actor is forced to run and you can tell they are slow. I just find it very funny. But usually they can get away with it unless it’s comical and they’re supposed to be kind of wild. But man, do they make him run in a lot of movies and it looks exquisite. I’d say he’s even a better runner than Keanu Reeves.

Matt (01:13:53):

Well, no, he’s cinema’s best runner. His Twitter bio just says, been running in movies since 1983. Shut up. It’s what it says. You shut

Laci (01:14:02):

Up.

Matt (01:14:02):

I will not get out of here. He tweets like every six months and he’s like, can’t wait for my movie. It’s exciting.

Laci (01:14:06):

He fucking tweet. Oh, I don’t know why I thought you said LinkedIn because I guess because watching a law for a movie, he links in

Matt (01:14:12):

That, let’s go to LinkedIn. Look up Tom Cruise. That can’t be real. But there’s this funny idea that his clients don’t mind paying the firm tons of money. In fact, they might have to pay the firm more money than they’d pay the IRS. They just don’t want to pay the IRS. That pisses them off. They’re annoyed by the idea that they’d have to pay,

Laci (01:14:29):

Right? Because one, they have to and one they chose.

Matt (01:14:31):

Exactly.

Laci (01:14:32):

Yeah. But I kept pointing to tell you, but you hate when I stop the movie. But the guy that ends up giving Mitch this idea of how to do this very legal way of entrapping the firm and making them stop without, because he didn’t want to break his ethics and his oath. I can’t remember the client’s name, but I know they’re in a fucking cotton exchange building. And of course the client’s black, which just makes me feel very weird. And there’s a fucking pile of cotton that’s always on the outside of that building. You guys are really exchanging front and cotton, the truck of cotton plays a big role at one point of the movie.

Matt (01:15:11):

Might it be that that is deliberate?

Laci (01:15:14):

Oh, I feel weird for going on and on about it then. And it ends up being his, what saves him is this covert location right here where no one’s actually looking Anyway, this client is like, I know I did not make you guys work for 30 hours last month or whatever. And Tom Cruise is like, no, you didn’t have 30 hours of work. I didn’t bill 30 hours of work. And he’s so sure. And he goes and looks at his bill and his 28.6 or something and he’s like, see, I knew it. I didn’t. I didn’t do 30 hours of work. I thought it was going to be at least half of, come on, Tom. You remember 1.4 hours you did not bill and you were adamant, sir, even that man, I’m thinking, okay, so you weren’t rounding up. I don’t know. He couldn’t know how many hours he actually had. But if I tell you I did not make you work 30 hours and you tell me, but you did make me work 28.6, I’m going to say that that’s just an honest mistake. Or I might be.

Matt (01:16:12):

Yeah. In fact, my memory of the movie is he checks his form and it’s like, whoa, I worked 12 hours.

Laci (01:16:17):

No, but that’s the whole thing. That’s how they’re getting away away with it. And then they start showing you comparing and contrasting other client’s bills and it’s just like a four, three to six number difference. And that’s how they’re getting Well, it’s a

Matt (01:16:30):

Classic. We keep two sets of books. We keep the real hours and then we keep the hours that we said, why do we keep the

Laci (01:16:34):

Fake

Matt (01:16:35):

Ones, man? They

Laci (01:16:35):

Just fucking

Matt (01:16:36):

Pad them. Other people do. Why do they keep the secret files on the murder attorneys? But it’s like we’re such attorneys, we can’t help

Laci (01:16:44):

It. Why do you keep the key to the murder closet on the key ring with all your other keys and you get drunk all the time in the Caymans. Avery, here’s my key ring. I want you to get back into my condo and I want to go fuck off for a while. But it’s also the key to the snack bar and to the murder closet, but

Matt (01:17:02):

It’s the only thing we know how to do is have files.

Laci (01:17:05):

I do like the mistake that is made though. It’s very, oh, it’s the cabinet over to the, I think he just makes a right and left.

Matt (01:17:14):

There’s

Laci (01:17:14):

Issue. I’m sorry. We can get there.

Matt (01:17:17):

All right, we’ll get there. But anyway, Cruz and Hackman have the conversation. What led you to become a lawyer? Well, I worked in a, the store owner got busted by the IRS. It wasn’t fair. What made you want to be a lawyer? Well, I caddied for some rich lawyers. I wanted to have those

Laci (01:17:32):

Tan legs.

Matt (01:17:33):

This is the only other indication you would think. Most corporate lawyers you’re interacting with come from some semblance of wealth or privilege, but right away he is like, no, I was a dirt bag working class guy.

Laci (01:17:47):

They don’t let just anybody be a catty though. Even the people who work at the country club are the members’ kids and stuff. I mean, unless they’re going to be lifelong, people who’ve done servicing have an amazing resume. Don’t, those are really good, really good jobs considered, or at least they’re very protective of the country club stuff. So it can go either way. But what also can go either way is Tom Cruise’s answer and what you know about him is he is about his word. I mean, he does care about the truth and he cares about the law, but he is also kind of a shapeshifter and he knows he needs to always be reading the room. So he gives him an answer that he adjusted by reading Avery’s response to it. He found it too Pollyanna at first, and then he went, no, I just couldn’t. I wanted that kind of power. He knew how to tweak

Laci (01:18:39):

Was a smart answer. Okay, people are dead. They’re going, okay, so now Tom, Mitch, and Abby are going for a barbecue, which God, what does this remind me of? But these, you move to a small town and now you’re part of this fucking cult and you only options are like, hang out with these people. What does this remind me of? Is it maybe Mad Men? Just neighborhood stuff. Anyway, they’re going over to another fucking barbecue and they get there. It’s Lamar and no one else is there, but him and his wife. And that is because she comes out in tears, exclaiming that two people at the firm died. Y’all

Matt (01:19:19):

On grand came and they were diving, and then there was some sort of explosion on the

Laci (01:19:22):

Boat. They dive in the dive,

Matt (01:19:24):

They dived when the boat exploded,

Laci (01:19:27):

Exploded in their brains.

Matt (01:19:29):

They go out to see Lamar and he’s just sitting on his back in his backyard and a sprinkler is repeatedly spraying him. That’s how

Laci (01:19:37):

Is and his dress closed. And

Matt (01:19:38):

At first like, oh, he’s sad, but when you watch the movie again, you realize, no,

Laci (01:19:42):

I didn’t need to see it again. This man is disassociating his ass off. He’s scared. And immediately the wife who has had her brain working and not clouded by fantasy of finally making it immediately, he’s like, yeah, she’s sad, but mainly she’s scared. And he’s like, how can you tell? I spent a lot of time, and to Mitch’s credit, he doesn’t totally dismiss what his wife is saying because they have a stronger bond than the average husband and wife do,

Matt (01:20:14):

Which we then see when she’s like, they have two horses, quarter horses, and Tom Cruise says, does that make half a horse? And they both start laughing and you get the Tom Cruise laugh that you only get this one time in the movie. The Toothiest laugh in cinema.

Laci (01:20:31):

It’s a good laugh,

Matt (01:20:32):

But it’s just a good detail to show they make each other laugh, including at inappropriate times, which is the best thing to do with your loved one.

Laci (01:20:38):

Yep.

Matt (01:20:39):

Well, they go to the funeral and this is where Avery Gene Hackman introduces himself to Abby and right away he’s creepy. God, is he creepy? Here, shake my hand. No, I’m going to let you go. I promise. Not yet though. Going to hold it. Hold it. Yeah, keep holding, keep holding. It must be so hard for Tom Cruise to leave home in the morning with you looking all pretty. Anyway, I’ll be seeing you around.

Laci (01:21:01):

And she immediately is like, oh, you must really be grieving. We all grieve in different ways. Some of us with our pain is

Matt (01:21:08):

Mitch is working his damn ass off, but he finds out from Avery that they have to go to the Cayman Islands tomorrow and

Laci (01:21:17):

They need a fucking solution to a complicated tax issue by the time they get there.

Matt (01:21:24):

Yes.

Laci (01:21:24):

So he is definitely just rope a doping. I use that term a lot, but it is how you make someone punch drunk and not thinking all the way Tom, by the time Tom Cruise gets to the Cayman Islands, he needs to be pliable because there’s going to be a very attractive hooker situation that he needs to fall for.

Matt (01:21:44):

You need to finish this complicated tax thing. Also, you need to be studying for the bar. No associate of this firm has ever failed the bar. So all of the pressure in the world don’t sleep. Yeah, you have no inhibitions. You’re right. That’s part of it. Yep.

Laci (01:21:58):

Ed Harris crackers,

Matt (01:21:59):

But he goes to this diner to work and then Ed Harris and also Paul Calderone sit down at a table near him. We last saw Paul Calderone,

Laci (01:22:07):

Pul Fiction

Matt (01:22:07):

In Pulp Fiction. He plays the bartender, my name’s Paul, and that’s between y’all. He almost got the role of Jewels instead of Samuel L. Jackson. But Ed Harris starts talking to Mitch. He’s like, you work at Bandini Limbo and Luck. They show lawyers, a lot of lawyers, four dead in 10 years, none of them over 45 years old. And Tom Cruise is like, what? Ed Harris just gets up. He’s like,

Laci (01:22:31):

Why come?

Matt (01:22:32):

We’ll see you again.

Laci (01:22:33):

Yeah, no, I know.

Matt (01:22:33):

We seen a lot of each other

Laci (01:22:34):

Take a packet of these crackers with my business card.

Matt (01:22:38):

But then Mitch goes back to his firm’s library and he’s looking at the portraits of the dead attorneys and he sees when they died, oh, the guy was right, 45, all younger than 45. So he goes and does a 1993 internet search for articles about their deaths and gets results about these weird boat deaths in the Cayman Islands. Then he goes home. Now his wife is really mad at him. He’s like, well, I’ve been working my ass off to give you a great life. She’s like, I don’t want, don’t want it. I don’t want that laugh. I just want you Now, I’ve never asked for all that stuff that you claim you want to be giving me, but like Laci said, there’s nothing she could ever say because he’s just a hollow in the soul.

Laci (01:23:14):

No, no. He’s just damaged and from feeling inferior when he grew up. That’s

Matt (01:23:19):

What I mean.

Laci (01:23:20):

That’s not hollow in the soul. He’s not out of hope. He can’t not learn. It just will take years. He needs maturity and he needs proof from her to see that she really is okay with a smaller life.

Matt (01:23:33):

Well, the hardest thing to accept is when I say that what I want is you and that’s it. That’s the hardest thing in the world to believe. Because if you have low, like, but I suck. I’m just me. It’s also the

Laci (01:23:45):

Easiest thing to say and a hard thing to prove. So I think by the end of the movie, she proves that plenty. But a poor person getting what they think they always wanted. That’s really the only thing that can show of someone like that. Oh, it really isn’t what you think it is. But I think he needs to have some stuff and then lose it and be like, yeah, it’s fine. That didn’t make me happier. It made me feel like I was on the fastest fucking treadmill. It’s like you don’t win the lottery because you got a really high paying job. You now have to have that job because you definitely bought a house and you definitely leased a fucking Mercedes,

Matt (01:24:22):

And the things that attracted her to you are now not so apparent because you are stressed and tired and sick and

Laci (01:24:32):

Well, and now you do have some money. So now how can you really suss out what’s working for her? What’s not? If she’s happy, if you come home and she’s just fucking just Clark Gable, why would she be that? I was trying to think of a housewife name. Just has your pie ready. It’s like, why are you

Matt (01:24:50):

No, she’s always chopping vegetables

Laci (01:24:51):

Anyway. Why are you so okay with me not coming home ever? I think that would’ve damaged the relationship even more. Her being totally cool with this.

Matt (01:24:59):

Now this starts a section of the movie where you get increasingly anxious about Tom Cruise not Sleeping

Laci (01:25:04):

Me.

Matt (01:25:05):

Yes.

Laci (01:25:05):

I hate it. He needs a

Matt (01:25:06):

Nap. He’s been up working all night. Now he has to have a fight with his wife and then go catch a flight. So he does. They fly to the Cayman Islands.

Laci (01:25:14):

The poor man’s dressing like a vampire. He’s not even in that movie yet. Look at his

Matt (01:25:17):

Shirt. No, he’s not. He’s dressing like

Laci (01:25:18):

Jerry Seinfeld.

Matt (01:25:19):

He does look like Jerry Seinfeld.

Laci (01:25:20):

He’s, I don’t want to be a pirate. He’s in his poopy shirt face guys, this man. And you know it’s bad when Tom Cruise doesn’t shave. I mean, they only give him a half a day of stubble because you can’t do that to Tom Cruise’s face at this time. But it’s there.

Matt (01:25:36):

So Gene Hackman takes him to meet their client Sunny Caps. Now this guy seems kind of like a mobster. He keeps talking about their friends in Chicago, but he contrasts himself with them. I’m not like a friends in Chicago. You lose me a million bucks. I’m not going to break your legs.

Laci (01:25:52):

I might break your knee caps. Hence the name guys. But I got it legally

Matt (01:25:54):

Changed. He’s not very happy though, with his attorney with Avery Tolar. So Tom Cruise then butts in and he’s like, now I’m going to turn it into a Tom Cruise and give a very confident monologue about how great our plan is.

Laci (01:26:05):

But this is how little he was actually prepared. I think Avery’s supposed to be impressing Tom here or Mitch, but Avery didn’t prepare him at all for what his place is in the pecking order or how you talk to a client like this. I mean, it went well, but it was not the best procedure. It just had a good outcome. I mean, he mouthed the fuck off. It just happens to be right. But that could go a whole other, that boat explosion could come not at the expense of the firm, but on behalf of Mr. Caps.

Matt (01:26:34):

Right. But it’s, Hey, you got balls. I like it. So they go back to the condo. I like worked. You earned a great dinner tonight, a meal at my favorite

Laci (01:26:43):

Steak of tint

Matt (01:26:45):

At my favorite buffet. And I started to notice, oh geez, you’re just an old, you’re an old. You’re just an old man likes

Laci (01:26:52):

You want a conga with a pretty girl, you

Matt (01:26:54):

A cruise ship buffet.

Laci (01:26:56):

Oh my God. No wonder he takes all the Caman Ireland stuff. I would too. They have the best

Matt (01:27:01):

Totos stay at the Hyatt. Right. They got that, got that midnight buffet.

Laci (01:27:08):

The sweetest ladies that are paid that are paid to dance with you like a cruise ship.

Matt (01:27:15):

He gives the Sam Rockwell monologue from White Lotus, but instead of all the pussy and Dick in the world, he’s like, I just had buffet after buffet. And I wondered, why do I need the buffet?

Laci (01:27:26):

I don’t know even Phoebe Buffet.

Matt (01:27:27):

I want be the buffet.

Laci (01:27:29):

I want them to eat grapes out of my ass.

Matt (01:27:33):

They go back to the condo and Tom Mitch is like Avery, who’s in Chicago, and he’s like, we’ll get to that. We’ll get to that. We’ll get to that. But first we need to get cleaned up. You’ve earned a great dinner tonight. Instead of showering or going to sleep, Mitch takes a cab to go interview the owner of the diving company that had the boat from which the lawyers died. This is Mr. Abank. His son was the boat captain who died in the explosion. And he said he’s the one who died with your four friends. Wait a minute, four friends. That’s right. Two lawyers and some other gentleman. One had a long blonde hair. He had a sort of serial killer vibe. The other,

Laci (01:28:08):

He looked like he wanted to play a game. The other one looked like he had a brother-in-law who makes meth in a trailer.

Matt (01:28:12):

Don’t know why I’m saying that, but yeah, that was sort of the vibe I was getting him. Him, which vibe? Interesting. Okay. Well, he goes back to the condo and Avery is Gene Heckman’s putting on his face in the bathroom. And he’s like, man, is that you? I’m trying to look as pretty as,

Laci (01:28:26):

You probably don’t think it’s possible, but I think it idiot. He

Matt (01:28:30):

Tells him, get yourself a red stripe. He’s so excited to cruise, to drink a red stripe. Is this

Laci (01:28:35):

The first movie that had product placement? Because they’re like, look at the Sheridan logo.

Matt (01:28:39):

What’d you think of that? Red stripe? That red stripe? You like your red stripe. Get your red stripe and Top Cruise says anything to munch on. Don’t say much. God, I hate that. Fucking hate that. Yeah. You know the key ring I gave you? Well, there’s a locked thing of snacks or whatever. And

Laci (01:28:54):

So it’s a locked fucking, what do you call it?

Matt (01:28:58):

A mini fridge?

Laci (01:28:59):

No, what do you call it? A hotel.

Matt (01:29:02):

A mini fridge.

Laci (01:29:02):

Mini bar. Right.

Matt (01:29:03):

Okay.

Laci (01:29:03):

Mini. That’s what I, anyway, it’s just funny. It’s like this is a luxury fucking villa. But they lock the snacks.

Matt (01:29:08):

Yeah. I don’t know. Yeah. Why are they locking the snacks?

Laci (01:29:11):

I don’t know. But they also lock them. But it’s also a place that he goes to so fucking often that he has his own closet. No one opens. Is this a hotel or not?

Matt (01:29:21):

No, they own this condo.

Laci (01:29:23):

Okay. Oh, so they go next door to the hotel

Matt (01:29:27):

Right later. Holly Hunter and Jean Tripplehorn. Yeah.

Laci (01:29:31):

Okay, fine. But he’s not at a Sheraton right now or something?

Matt (01:29:33):

No, no. He’s at the condo that the firm owns.

Laci (01:29:36):

Fine, but the condo association is not like a Marriott or something?

Matt (01:29:40):

No.

Laci (01:29:40):

Okay. So there’s no cleaner that, well, there might be a cleaner, but she doesn’t go in the

Matt (01:29:44):

Snack. She doesn’t ask questions

Laci (01:29:45):

Or the murder closet. Okay. Anyway,

Matt (01:29:48):

Because Mitch asked, is there something to munch on? This is how he stumbles upon the closet of mystery.

Laci (01:29:52):

Like it’s a locked cabinet over there. Oh, the door. Okay. Got it.

Matt (01:29:56):

And it’s just all kinds of file cabinets and boxes with the names of dead attorneys all

Laci (01:30:00):

Day. He’s fucking in there for so long. I think this was my most anxious

Matt (01:30:03):

Moment. You going nuts right

Laci (01:30:04):

Here You were. I mean, he’s sitting down having a snack, lighting a fucking candle. I don’t know what he’s doing. He’s like that, man. He has two socks to put on.

Matt (01:30:12):

Yeah, gene Heckman’s like, oh, match. I’m coming now. I’m on the top step second to last step here. Oh, enjoy a red stripe. I’ll be here in a second. Oh, okay.

Laci (01:30:22):

There you go. There you are. Then he drops the red stripe in the closet and doesn’t scoot it out with his foot and say the most normal thing ever, which is I’ve barely slept. I drop this beer. He just shoves it into the closet puddle and all like, and

Matt (01:30:35):

What does would immediately say,

Laci (01:30:37):

I’d rather drink tequila or whatever. What does he

Matt (01:30:39):

Say? Where’s the red stripe?

Laci (01:30:40):

Yeah,

Matt (01:30:42):

Red stripe. Red stripe. Red stripe, stripe.

Laci (01:30:44):

I’d rather save it for the

Matt (01:30:46):

Chuck.

Laci (01:30:47):

What does he have? Rum or something? The

Matt (01:30:49):

Rum. The, I heard the rum was good in the Cayman Islands.

Laci (01:30:52):

Everything’s better than the Cayman Islands pussy crab cakes.

Matt (01:30:57):

Alright. So God, this guy would fucking love a, I don’t know if he would love a carnival cruise. That would be too,

Laci (01:31:03):

He’d feel too pent up.

Matt (01:31:05):

Is it a little too low class for him?

Laci (01:31:07):

I guess if he got to steer the boat,

Matt (01:31:10):

Can I steer this boat there? But yeah, he’s having fun at this Caribbean dance club for old white people. And this lady hits on Tom Cruise and he’s like, Hey lady, take a hike. I’m a married man and he holds up his wedding ring and she’s like, forget you. But later Tom Cruise is walking on the beach by himself.

Laci (01:31:26):

Exactly. Two minutes later.

Matt (01:31:27):

Well, yes. And he sees a woman getting accosted by a man.

Laci (01:31:32):

There’s a struggle.

Matt (01:31:33):

There is a struggle. The man sees Mitch and he was like, oh shit. And he runs

Laci (01:31:36):

Away. Oh my God, that guy’s five foot two and he runs away.

Matt (01:31:39):

So Mitch goes up to the woman, are you okay? And she’s like, oh, I don’t know.

Laci (01:31:43):

I’ve sprung my spring, my foot.

Matt (01:31:46):

He’s like, let me help you with that ankle that’s broken or whatever.

Laci (01:31:50):

Just a sprain.

Matt (01:31:51):

And she immediately starts hitting on him and she’s like, I work at a travel agency and

Laci (01:31:57):

I just wanted to feel, how do you say, rich?

Matt (01:32:00):

I wanted to feel rich and pretty and how much would it take to make somebody feel rich? And it’s like Tom Cruise is like, wow. Wow. It’s like she’s speaking into my

Laci (01:32:09):

Soul. Yeah, that’s exactly how I feel about law.

Matt (01:32:11):

So they have sex on the beach.

Laci (01:32:13):

It’s just out in the open. Just right there by the boat, by that land ship boat.

Matt (01:32:17):

I can’t imagine. I don’t know. Would having sex on a beach be all that good? I

Laci (01:32:22):

Liked it.

Matt (01:32:23):

Like it

Laci (01:32:32):

Six times? Yeah. With whom? Went to Florida with me, and it’s a condo full of fucking relatives. So there was a construction site of a hotel being built on the beach side. So you’re not allowed to go on the beach there at night or in the day or anything because it’s a construction site. So we just went there with a towel, had sex.

Matt (01:32:56):

It was a

Laci (01:32:56):

Bunch of times.

Matt (01:32:58):

How would you rate it?

Laci (01:32:59):

It was good. It was good because it was public, but not, no one could see there’s no risk. But there was risk. It was only so mad.

Matt (01:33:11):

Alright, listener. Laci and I have deleted a long conversation about about, but got explicit to protect the names of the innocent,

Laci (01:33:20):

Namely me,

Matt (01:33:22):

But my pride is wounded. Now I

Laci (01:33:24):

Owe you some beach sex. God.

Matt (01:33:26):

See, I would’ve assumed you didn’t like that because of the sand.

Laci (01:33:29):

I brought a towel.

Matt (01:33:31):

Well, there you, I don’t know what to think. Anyway, next day they’re flying home and Gene Hackman is like, oh, by the way, oh, your wife called last night. I told her you were walking on the beach. Well, I was. Well, I guess right then Red stripe. So back in Memphis, Mitch, rather than going home to his pretty wife, rents a car to go see his brother Ray in prison. His brother David Strat, the rare David Strand not playing like a gentleman of high status.

Laci (01:34:06):

Who do I know him from? This.

Matt (01:34:07):

Oh, what don’t you know him from? I don’t know. I hate the Lacy. What is Lacy? Wait, you think

Laci (01:34:12):

You’d prepare? It’s fine. It doesn’t matter. And don’t leave this in. You always leave in you Googling. It’s not interesting.

Matt (01:34:17):

I mean, he had sex with Carmela soprano when she was briefly separated

Laci (01:34:22):

From Tony. Oh, well she’s a priest. Oh, look of their own. No, it’s League of Their Own. It’s League of Their Own.

Matt (01:34:26):

Oh, okay.

Laci (01:34:26):

I knew there was a very specific thing.

Matt (01:34:28):

He’s not the priest in the Sopranos? No.

Laci (01:34:30):

Oh, he

Matt (01:34:31):

Is. He’s like AJ’s principal or something. Is David Strather? He’s a priest. Yeah. Okay. He’s a priest. So yeah, this is why he was afraid to mention his brother. His brother’s in prison in Arkansas of all places.

Laci (01:34:43):

That’s so embarrassing. Manslaughter. The cutest little death you could ever give.

Matt (01:34:47):

It’s been a while since Mitch has visited, but he’s confessed. I am a little worried about my situation in life, Ray. Wouldn’t it be funny if I went to Harvard and you went to prison and we both ended up surrounded by criminals. I don’t know. Mitch, does that sound like the real world? That’s right. Ray is like, well, that would, yes, indeed. That would be ironic. You sound like you’re in a lot of trouble. You have my sympathy also, I used to share a cell with a man and you should go see him. He’s in Littlerock. He’s a private investigator. Used to be a cop and he’ll

Laci (01:35:22):

Help you. I know one. Okay. I know one. This poor fucking guy. You sound like you’re in deep. I know a guy that’d like to die.

Matt (01:35:30):

This is intercut with Gene Hackman back at the firm telling how Holbrooke great Mitch was doing. And he’s like, I want to send him to the tax seminar in dc.

Laci (01:35:37):

He’ll really knock us out there.

Matt (01:35:39):

And how Holbrooke then turns over to Wilfred Brimley. He is like, what do you think about that? And Wilfred Brimley, he’s like, it’s a good idea. So far the kid’s been very predictable.

Laci (01:35:48):

Interesting choice of what?

Matt (01:35:49):

I guess because the movie isn’t being explicit, that the firm has been orchestrating everything, including the woman on the beach,

Laci (01:35:56):

Which I mean, I suspected, but yeah, we don’t learn that so much later.

Matt (01:35:59):

Mitch goes to Little Rock to the office of Mr. Eddie Lomax. And first we see Holly Hunter in a blonde wig who’s just like dancing in front of a teapot. He’s like, I’m my work here at the office. Okay. And Gary Busey is Eddie Lomax, and he’s just fucking thrilled.

Laci (01:36:16):

Is that the exact name of weekend at Bernie’s guy?

Matt (01:36:20):

Lomax? Eddie Lomax.

Laci (01:36:22):

Oh, it’s

Matt (01:36:24):

Name. It’s weekend at Bernie’s. It’s in the name.

Laci (01:36:26):

But Bernie and Eddie. Come on.

Matt (01:36:28):

There you go. Hey, Mitch Mcara. Braly went to law school with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your brother never stopped talking about you, by the way. It was statutory rape. Statutory rape. She was 17. She looked 25. And then he explains the thing about Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter plays Tammy. This is an Oscar nominated performance from Holly Hunter. The same year she won the best actress Oscar for the piano. One of the great movies of the 1990s, Holly Hunter, one of the top five actor of all time. I think, in my opinion, one of my favorite actors.

Laci (01:37:02):

She, it’s one of your favorite ladies.

Matt (01:37:04):

One of my favorite ladies. And she married a man who looks just like Elvis and calls himself Elvis.

Laci (01:37:11):

Okay, wait, in the movie, in

Matt (01:37:13):

The movie Tammy, not Holly. This is Intercut with Abby paying a visit to the office. She’s like, I’m looking for my missing husband. And Avery comes down, he’s like, yeah, he’s a study. Not the library. I don’t know. So we don’t see what Mitch talks to Gary Busey about, but as he leaves, we then see him leaving. He’s like, well, I’ll look. Look at all that stuff for you. Yeah,

Laci (01:37:33):

That’s why I came.

Matt (01:37:34):

So Mitch goes home to his wife and he’s like, Hey, where were you? You were missing today. I went to see my brother. Really? And then he’s like, Hey, why do you look so sad? Is because your brother’s in prison. He is like, yes, it is that and nothing else. She’s like, I’ve got an idea. Why don’t we order pizza and we’ll watch Star search Like the old days.

Laci (01:37:52):

I do love Star search.

Matt (01:37:54):

Meanwhile, Gary Busey and Holly Hunter are making out on his desk when all of a sudden two thugs come in. Tobin Bell, the jigsaw killer himself, and Dean Norris, Hank Schrader from Breaking Bad Come in. Holly Hunter immediately goes under the desk and Tobin Bell just immediately shoots Gary Busey in the ear. Why are you asking about dead lawyers? Who hired you to do that? He’s like, I’ll tell you who hired me. And he reaches for a gun underneath his desk like Han Solo, the man who hired me, his name was Julio ilac. His name was Julio ilac. Yes. And shoots and ends up shooting D Norris. The Knee and Towing Bell shoots Gary Busey

Laci (01:38:31):

Dead because D Nors only gets a limp.

Matt (01:38:34):

I know. It’s crazy because he’s limping later in the movie. That’s just on his cvs. We’re going to limp with the best of them. So Mitch gets sent to this tax seminar in dc We’ll learn all about taxes, but he opens up his binder to follow along with his speaker. And there’s a note from Ed Harris like, meet me down. Meet me at the mall. So he does and sits down on a bench next to Mr. Denton

Laci (01:38:56):

Voyles, but he’s at Mervin’s. He did not know what he meant by mall.

Matt (01:38:58):

I’m here now. This character is a recurring character in the John Grisham verse. Denton Voyles. He’s the FBI director. However, he doesn’t in this movie, he just says, I’m with the Department of Justice, rather than saying I’m the FBI director. Because yes, it is pretty strange that you’d go sit on a bench next to the director of the FBI.

Laci (01:39:17):

Right. If you’re trying to keep a low profile, maybe don’t put your most important person on a bench with some guy

Matt (01:39:22):

Also. Yeah. If you’re a lawyer and you’re in dc, you know who the FBI Director Laci, you can probably name who the F FBI I director is right now.

Laci (01:39:32):

It’s definitely Tema Fucking

Matt (01:39:35):

Cash Patel.

Laci (01:39:36):

Cash Patel.

Matt (01:39:36):

Yeah. The guy who, the guy who’s been on hundreds of Q Anon podcasts. What I was saying, yeah. I did Tesh Pat. Yeah. Director Patel, that’s you. I loved you on Rogan. I loved you on infowars. You’ve really

Laci (01:39:50):

Earned your spot.

Matt (01:39:51):

So he starts explaining, alright, here’s the deal with your law firm. It’s the sole legal representative of the Alto crime family in Chicago. Now your house is being bugged, your phone tapped, your office wired. You’re being followed. Your life as you knew is over. Basically, this is just a massive money laundering operation. They do drugs and prostitution and gambling. They take in the cash, they give it to the firm. The firm sets up phony corporations and the Caymans sends back legitimate paychecks and stuff. I’d watch a movie just about that. I love that

Laci (01:40:25):

Shit. Shit. I know you, you love a good launder.

Matt (01:40:26):

They give legitimate work to the young associates to keep them busy, keep them not asking questions head down until suddenly they’re in on it and they’re in too deep to get out. But to make the case against them, we need an insider. So Mitch, here’s your dilemma. You can cooperate with us. Help us out now and bring down the firm. Or eventually we’re going to bring ’em down anyway and you’ll go down with them. But if you corroborate, you’ll get disbarred. You won’t be able to practice login because you’ll be revealing your client’s information. Which this is true.

Laci (01:40:53):

It’s not true. I mean, really, if you’re helping the fucking FBI could that possibly be true? I don’t know.

Matt (01:40:59):

I once asked a lawyer I was working for, I was like, wait, so who is the bar association? Who are they? The government? Are they the, and he was like, I don’t know.

Laci (01:41:07):

They’re just, who gives us the paper?

Matt (01:41:09):

Well, I could disbarred, I don’t know. I don’t know who’s disbarred me. But they don’t work for the FBI. But if you cooperate, we’ll pay you. You’ll go into witness protection. And Ed Harris is like, also, we might be able to get your brother out of prison, but in the meantime, you and your wife need to act like everything is cool. So when he gets back to Memphis, he immediately runs and tells the partners about the FBI. He’s like, they were telling me about the secret files and Gene Hackman’s. Like I don’t know where I put those secret files. Do you know where they are, Holly?

Laci (01:41:39):

I don’t totally understand this move or what it accomplish, but do you think he thought someone probably noticed him go, alright, okay.

Matt (01:41:46):

Yeah. I think he’s already decided I need to work with the FBI, but the first thing I need to do is

Laci (01:41:51):

Tell them

Matt (01:41:52):

That

Laci (01:41:52):

I was talked to.

Matt (01:41:54):

And so they act like outrage. The feds are harassing us. It because we always win these cases against the government. That’s just what they do. They try to get you to break the law and then they have you as a source, which is what they do. The FBI does. I’m in the midst of reading the incredible book Chaos by Tom O’Neill.

Laci (01:42:13):

When are you going to put that on my phone?

Matt (01:42:14):

I’ll put it on phone when we get Chinese food. Okay. This book about how Charles Manson was almost certainly an intelligence asset, probably of the ccia A and the way these assets work is your handler with the FBI or the CIA or whoever it is. They encourage you to break laws and stuff. Once you break laws, then they’re like, we’ll turn you over if you don’t cooperate with us. Anyway, goes home to Abby, whispers to her, our house is bugged, our lives are over, we’re fucked. And she runs away and he chases. He’s like, you can’t get away from me. I’m Tom Cruise.

Laci (01:42:48):

Number one.

Matt (01:42:49):

Easily catches her. And she’s like, every single thing we’ve ever done in that house, nothing has been between us, but the only thing we can do, Abby, we have to pretend we’re normal. If we don’t, they’re going to kill Ray. The only thing I can do is go into work tomorrow and start copying files. So the next day, Mitch goes in to try to copy some files and he discovers the thing with the copy machine, has the client billing code. And again, John Grisham in the book goes on for like 55 pages about this. This is incredible what they can do on top of everything. Who do I even bill my espionage to? Which client is paying for the FBI’s work marketing? There you

Laci (01:43:23):

Go. 0, 0, 0, 0 1.

Matt (01:43:25):

That was what I would do. Often there’s just firm admin code for just, I can’t be bothered to remember. I still have the muscle memory of some of the client codes I worked on. Isn’t that crazy? Everybody tell me how crazy. That is. Crazy. But Mitch’s secretary’s, like you got ordered a fried egg sandwich from the deli and he’s like, I did no such. Oh, that’s Holly Hunter. Come right in, please. And she’s like the receipt’s in the bag. It’s a note from her telling her, telling him Meet me at Deli from which this ex sandwich came from.

Laci (01:43:53):

That’s right. That’s the most natural thing to do.

Matt (01:43:56):

I love ordering a pizza from Domino’s, delivering it to my house, and then I go to the Domino’s to eat it. It’s the ambiance. But yeah, she’s so good. In this movie, she’s talking about Gary Busey dying. She’s like, I loved him, but she’s being pursued by the Goons by Tobin Bell and she doesn’t know what to do. Yeah. She describes him and she’s like, there was a guy with long blonde hair and a guy who was bald and limped or limped after he got shot in the knee,

Matt (01:44:21):

But Mitch is like, okay, well you know what? Maybe you can help me. So yeah, so it’s like a plan is developing in his head. But then he gets intercepted by Wilfred Brimley and Tobin Bell who get him into their car and they take him to a secluded location and they open up a file and it’s photographs of Mitch having sex with the lady on the beach,

Laci (01:44:38):

Intimate things, oral

Matt (01:44:40):

Things. So the way he pitches it is we wouldn’t want, this is the kind of thing that the sicko FBI does. They’re fucking sick. They’d get some, your wife, Abby, is going to the mailbox anticipating her Sharper Image catalog. What does she find instead? She finds heartache. Mitch, go on, take a look.

Laci (01:45:00):

Muff diving.

Matt (01:45:01):

And so Tom Cruise is flipping through and he is like, and er room is like devastating. All kinds of intimate acts, oral and whatnot, stuff. A young wife will find hard to forgive, but I’ll protect you, Mitch. I’ll protect you. I just love the way he’s delivering. Like

Laci (01:45:15):

This

Matt (01:45:16):

Is what the FBI would do. It’s what I’m literally doing it to you, but I’m couching it in the language of the FBI is going to blackmail you here. So he goes back to the firm and he is told, holding the envelope, holding the manila folder with the pictures, told Mitch, the partners want to see you in the library. Oh fuck. And he gets in, they’re like, surprise, you pass the bar and here’s your wife. And she’s like, hi, I’m so happy to be here. And she hugs him and accidentally knocks the folder out of his hands,

Laci (01:45:46):

Just his face and a crotch. Like, no, that’s taxes. It didn’t happen. It could have.

Matt (01:45:52):

So Tammy rents office space in a nearby office building with a copier. And Mitch comes clean to Abby. Another big change from the book. He never tells Abby about the cheating in the book, but it’s a pretty

Laci (01:46:04):

Good

Matt (01:46:04):

Change. It’s an important change to make him not a terrible person.

Laci (01:46:08):

The character, there’ve been painting of him caring about what’s true, the law, doing what he says he’s going to do. He took an oath to her as he took an oath for that bar.

Matt (01:46:19):

And it’s not, if the mob puts a woman in front of you to have sex with you, it is still your fault. But I think your culpability falls a little bit because they’re literally, they’re putting it right in front of you and trying to get it to happen.

Laci (01:46:34):

They calibrated and what if he’s not even the kind of guy that goes down on a woman? So she sees these pictures, she’s like, you would do this for her, but you don’t know. In the middle of it, the woman could have been like, eh, get down there now and then pitch your picture and then springs back up it.

Matt (01:46:49):

These pictures don’t tell the whole story, Abby. It

Laci (01:46:51):

Could look like it.

Matt (01:46:52):

I told you I didn’t want to do that. And it’s true.

Laci (01:46:54):

She was not enjoying it.

Matt (01:46:56):

Yeah. So Abby’s like, why are you telling me this? This is terrible. And he’s like, well, I couldn’t stand your not knowing. So she cries and leaves the restaurant. Gene Hackman gets told by Wilfred b Brimley that Mitch has a brother in prison. Don’t worry, we’ve got a prison guard on our payroll. But Chicago is very concerned about this. Mitch, we’re worried that maybe we’re misreading him. So Chicago is sending some guys down. But

Laci (01:47:20):

What does Chicago know about Mitch?

Matt (01:47:23):

Huh? I’m

Laci (01:47:23):

Trying to think what does Chicago know?

Matt (01:47:25):

No, they’re coming down to try to maybe put some more men on it to try to really suss out what’s his deal. And Gene, he is trying to play it down like, no, no, no, nothing to worry about. It’s just I was embarrassed about his brother. You lie about your brother to get a job like this, Mitch. There’s this humor. Bitches sadly walking down Beale Street and the Backflipping kid from earlier in the movie passes him by and it’s like, Hey, you going to back flip with me? Oh, you’re not. We start to see Mitch’s scheme with Tammy of exchanging briefcases in the elevator. I want to do the briefcase exchange one day. We will. We will. Okay. Mitch meets with his client in the cotton building who is angry about being overbuild,

Laci (01:48:05):

Same building as Tammy Tammy’s office. So he has the great cover for why he’s doing this,

Matt (01:48:10):

Right?

Laci (01:48:11):

Why does he visit this man 27 times in three days? We will never know.

Matt (01:48:15):

But he’s angry about being overbuild and he’s like, all the firms are doing it. It’s like, it’s this policy. It’s absurd. And this, by the way, when you put this in the mail and send it, it becomes, and Mitch is like a federal offense of course. And he gets his idea. So he goes back to Holly Hunter, he is like, I’ve got an idea. We can do this without breaking the law and I can still practice law. He’s like, okay, great.

Laci (01:48:35):

And also Holly Hunter’s been making all these copies. Wait, no, this is later. Okay, I’ll complain about this later.

Matt (01:48:42):

Okay,

Laci (01:48:42):

Great.

Matt (01:48:42):

But the good stuff is in the Cayman Islands. That’s the point. The shit I can smuggle out of the office, it’s piddly stuff. We need to get down to the Caymans, but what to do about that? Gosh darn FBI that wants me to break my legal ethics code. Well, they go to the dog track and have a little convo.

Laci (01:48:59):

Mitch get some of his power back because he lures Ed Harris’ character into saying something about not doing something ethically.

Matt (01:49:10):

I’ll violate your civil rights motherfucker. I don’t care. I’m above the law. And he’s like, could you say that again and say your first and last name? Yes. I agent Wayne Harris. No, Wayne Terrance of the Maryland branch. I’ll violate your civil rights. Yeah, I Ed Harris.

Laci (01:49:26):

And then Mitch takes out his talk boy and he’s like,

Matt (01:49:30):

How did you,

Laci (01:49:31):

Yes,

Matt (01:49:32):

But this is also where Mitch makes the demand. We want a million and a half dollars wired to a bank in Zurich and we want my brother freed from prison. Your brother got convicted for manslaughter. I can’t do that. Give the fucking FBI. You work for the director. Fucking

Laci (01:49:45):

Manslaughter. He’s a white guy.

Matt (01:49:49):

But yeah, so I have the compliment on you Ed Harris. So you can’t make me break the law or else I’ll leak this to the press. They’ll have a field day. FBI agent says some untoward things to man at dog track. It’s a scandal. So Mitch goes home to talk to Abby. He’s like, I came up with a great new plan. Okay, do you want to hear my plan? She’s like, no, I don’t really care to hear your plan. I care to leave you. I’m going to my mom’s house. Oh, okay. But we have to go inside and say it for the bug so that they can hear that you’re leaving on our severance show. I’ve been talking about how I don’t like stories that withhold information from viewers. I do think that different rules apply in a sort of spy caper or a heist thing. People might accuse me of.

Laci (01:50:34):

Well, just tell me what you’re okay with here.

Matt (01:50:37):

We don’t know what Mitch’s actual plan is, and so many of these kinds of movies involve the main character has knowledge they’re not sharing with you.

Laci (01:50:44):

I’m okay with that if it’s making it fun to track. But yeah, they’re just using it to fucking to cheat at getting some sort of feeling out of me that just like, oh God, what does it mean? Just tell me. But when I’m watching a thriller or a heist movie, I’m not like, oh my God, but what’s their plan? I’m enjoying watching the plan

Matt (01:51:05):

Unfold. That is the pleasure of the thing. It is a good in and of itself. Yes. That’s the difference. So yeah, she’s leaving and I’m never going to see you again. Maybe I don’t know. So we cut to Ed Harris talking to his boss, to the FBI director and the FBI is like, well, you know what? Okay, fine. We’ll get his brother out of prison. But then as soon as we get everything we want from Mc Deere, we’ll send his brother right back to prison. So the viewer now know, well, the FBI is just going to fucking, just fucking him. So that’s the sort of tension this movie is playing with that I think is kind of clever, is you also can’t trust the FBI, which Mitch says immediately like, I’m going to go be in the witness protection program. What kind of life is that? And I’ll just be living in fear the rest of my life. All the director can say is, it doesn’t have to be that way. Of course it will be.

Laci (01:51:58):

It is, but you make it.

Matt (01:51:59):

And also you won’t even let it get that far. You’ll cut me loose as soon as it’s convenient. And he’s smart enough to realize that, which is what I love about the difference of the ending of the movie versus the book where the movie’s like there’s this clear side to be on and it’s the side of the mafia. It’s not the firm or the FBI

Laci (01:52:17):

In the book?

Matt (01:52:18):

No, in the movie.

Laci (01:52:19):

Okay.

Matt (01:52:19):

The book. He’s with the FBI all the way through. Got it. So now we begin the Cayman heist and

Laci (01:52:27):

Well, I mean, okay, so Avery goes to see Aby because he heard it’s her last day and he’s got such the chubby for her. So he goes to her school and looks at her and very weirdly invites her to the Cayman Islands. Strange play.

Matt (01:52:47):

Well, because he’s like, I’m going to the Caymans, you should come. And he sees her reaction and he’s like, bring ’em off. I take rejection really well. So he’s just like, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don’t take, just hit on everyone. You see.

Laci (01:53:02):

I just need to get you into the Caymans. And this whole time Abby’s a doer. She has insisted on keeping her life normal and having some control. So she works as a teacher now. She’s being asked to leave that job and get the hell out of here for her safety and because she doesn’t want to be around her husband right now. So she sees an opportunity, fuck it. You want me to go to the same condo with the murder closet, then maybe I’m going to take this shit in my own hand.

Matt (01:53:35):

Well, because she knows about her husband and

Laci (01:53:40):

Tammy’s

Matt (01:53:40):

Plan, they’ve hired the dive boat driver, the dive boat driver to take him diving and take him really far away. And we know we’ll have a timetable for when he’s gone. So Holly Hunter can smuggle the files out of the condo, but he says right here to Abby, I can’t dive, turns out I have to cancel my, there’s a thing where you can’t fly within

Laci (01:54:00):

Certain

Matt (01:54:00):

Mode within a certain period of time

Laci (01:54:01):

After certain hours after diving. Yeah.

Matt (01:54:02):

Yeah. So she’s like, shit, we need to tell Mitch, but I don’t know how to tell him because he’s being bugged. So she tells Holly Hunter and then Abby comes up with a plan on her own. I’ll go down to the Caymans and I’ll seduce him. Sexually

Laci (01:54:15):

Sexual style. Wait, I don’t remember. Does Mitch know to the Caymans too?

Matt (01:54:20):

No.

Laci (01:54:20):

No.

Matt (01:54:21):

And this too is a change in the book with Abby going to the Caymans.

Laci (01:54:24):

But how does Mitch know not to go to the Caymans? How

Matt (01:54:27):

Does No, he tried to get invited on this trip and Jean Hackman says, you can’t go. My client will like you too much.

Laci (01:54:34):

Oh, okay, okay.

Matt (01:54:36):

I mean, that might not be the literal reason, but we saw the scene where he’s like, when are you going to the Caymans next? He’s like, I’m going next week. You can’t come. Sonny’s going to end up liking you too much.

Laci (01:54:46):

I got that, but why is he not freaking out? And why is Holly Hunter in the Caymans as if he is going? And I’m just saying he seems like he should be freaking out a little more that he can’t go do his plan this

Matt (01:54:59):

During

Laci (01:54:59):

This time,

Matt (01:54:59):

He was never going to the Caymans. He was just sending Holly Hunter. She’s never met Gene Hackman.

Laci (01:55:05):

Oh, okay, now I get it.

Matt (01:55:08):

We see Ed Harris escorts David Strait Theron out of FBI Agent Wayne Terrace, escorts Ray McTeer out of prison. But then we see the prison guard, who’s guard, who’s on the mob payroll, and he contacts the firm. Mitch tells Terrance, send half the money now and then I’ll send the files. Okay, down in the Cayman Islands, Avery Tolar is at the buffet and he’s very excited. He’s filling up his plate with all kinds of vittles, and suddenly he sees Abby and he’s like, holy fucking shit. It worked. That’s the first time that ever worked.

Laci (01:55:44):

I caught myself a gazelle

Matt (01:55:45):

And she’s holding an island drink, and he’s like, I’m in Shante to sue you, or No, I’m surprised to sue you. She’s like, I’m surprised too. I forgot what she says. But they sit down, they start drinking, and he starts to explain himself. He says, I have a very bad reputation. I run around. I run around.

Laci (01:56:08):

Well, he’s instantly bearing his soul. He didn’t expect it to work. And I think there’s part of them that really likes Mitch and respects her. He needs to pump the brakes. All of a sudden he’s just like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I’m getting too weird for my own self.

Matt (01:56:25):

This

Laci (01:56:25):

Is the bridge too far.

Matt (01:56:26):

And this is the Gene Hackman magic that you can invest all of that in just a few little words that he’s saying.

Laci (01:56:31):

Yeah, look, I actually really love my wife.

Matt (01:56:33):

It’s because I think I cheat on my wife because I think my own wife understands me and she’s lost interest in me. I know I have, and I haven’t cared about it for anyone since. I’d like to though. I miss it. I just love, she lost interest in me, and then I lost interest in myself as a result, and I haven’t felt like a human being. And so I’m like Sam Rockwell in the white Lotus pursuing Buffets everywhere. So he goes off to refill his plate at the buffet and gives her a thumbs up from over there, and he pours the drug powder into his drink.

Laci (01:57:06):

Never going to notice it.

Matt (01:57:10):

There’s this whole thing with Mitch’s brother is getting pursued by the FBI because they want to put him back in prison as soon as Mitch

Laci (01:57:18):

Gives

Matt (01:57:18):

Them the files. So

Laci (01:57:19):

There’s this whole process with the Elvis impersonator and some trucks and then a plane, and there’s a whole B plot that’s just a whole lot of hole.

Matt (01:57:30):

Well, this is the, oh, Mitch thought of everything, anticipated their every move. He knew that they would be putting his brother back in prison. So he got the Elvis impersonator in his big rig. Gene Hackman drinks the drug powder, and then is stubbornly not passing out, which I don’t know where else that happens. I just always like it when it happens in a movie or something. Why are they not passing out with the drugs? They’re that much of a drunk that

Laci (01:57:54):

It’s

Matt (01:57:54):

Not even affecting them?

Laci (01:57:55):

Well, it just takes a minute. He just has a high tolerance. This coming, a high metabolism. He’s a slow metabolism.

Matt (01:58:01):

So Abby’s like, he should have been passed out by now. Okay, I guess I’m going to have sex. She starts to remove her clothes, but he suddenly gets very aggressive. Why are you here? You are not being truthful. She says, fine. I came here to punish Mitch for cheating on me and for having the firm ruin our lives. And she goes to give him a kiss, but then he just falls over asleep. So she starts smuggling out the boxes. This is my favorite part of the movie in the book is the file box. Escapades a love sneaking a bunch of file boxes and having to go make copies real fast.

Laci (01:58:32):

It’s very stressful.

Matt (01:58:33):

Yes. Very, very

Laci (01:58:34):

Stressful, stressed.

Matt (01:58:35):

They do this all night just making copies, taking staples out, putting staples back in.

Laci (01:58:41):

And here is where I’ll say that I’m not pleased with Tammy’s fucking, I know she’s just getting the job done, but she noticed from file box one that there’s no numbers on anything. The thing that he wants to get copied just isn’t there. And so they realize that totals and numbers of any kind are protected under some kind of password that they find. But I still don’t understand how that fucking

Matt (01:59:07):

Works. It is just their marsh madness brackets. I don’t get it, but maybe there’ll be password on a Compu panel, and that’ll be the clue that will unravel this whole thing. He’s like, well, I’ll go look in his office tomorrow morning. Okay, great. But it’s the morning. Abby goes back into the condo and she’s like, I’ll just sneak into bed, take off my clothes, and be like, Hey, big boy. That was some sex you had last night. But he gets woken up by a phone call from Wilfred Brimley. She stole your keys. God knows what else. Who is she? Gene Hackman immediately lies just some girl I met. I don’t know.

Laci (01:59:43):

So wait, how do they know? Oh, because they heard someone on the phone. Okay. I’m like, they know it’s a girl. They know she stole shit, but they don’t know who the fuck it is.

Matt (01:59:50):

Yeah. Abby made a call from the condo,

Laci (01:59:52):

Right?

Matt (01:59:52):

Hey, I’m coming with the shit that I stole from the firm.

Laci (01:59:55):

You need to go, Abby. He did a lot of good stuff and then that,

Matt (01:59:58):

So already he’s lying for her. She comes in and talks to him, and it’s just this nice sad little scene. He’s like, you got to go. You got to get out of here. Also, the firm set Mitch up with that woman on the beach that was orchestrated, and she’s like, what are they going to do to you, Avery? Whatever it is. They did it a long time ago.

Laci (02:00:18):

Oh, that’s another powerful.

Matt (02:00:19):

Yeah. None of this is in the book. This is all such an improvement on the book. You have both of these characters a sort of emotional journey to go on back in Memphis, Mitch has gotten the final. He went to the copy panel and got the key to the Cipher thing. Now they can solve the bank records.

Laci (02:00:36):

Cordelia,

Matt (02:00:37):

It was his wife’s name. That’s it.

Laci (02:00:40):

But

Matt (02:00:41):

The firm has Mitch. Mitch is the Mole. Get him. Get him. Wilford Brimley and Mitch makes it out of, he jumps out of the window and onto the cotton truck and rolls off, runs into the Peabody Hotel calls Ed Harris,

Laci (02:00:53):

Where it all started.

Matt (02:00:54):

And Ed Harris is like, my God, mc the Marto crime Family’s coming in this afternoon. They’re real upset with you. Come into the FBI, we’ll take care of you. And he’s like, are you kidding me? You’re terrible at everything. Fucking suck. He sees the Mud Island monorail and runs and gets on it where he is immediately spotted by Kay, the wife of Lamar, who calls her husband. You

Laci (02:01:14):

Know who I

Matt (02:01:14):

Just

Laci (02:01:14):

Saw on the Mud Island monorail? I was just taking a little field trip with our homeschooled children. There’s four things to do here. We’re doing Mud Island again.

Matt (02:01:22):

Mud Island again,

Laci (02:01:25):

It looks real boring.

Matt (02:01:26):

It is crazy that Memphis has a monorail. Its only function is to go to Mud Island.

Laci (02:01:32):

It had to be for the World’s Fair or something. That’s always the explanation for these random fucking ways to travel.

Matt (02:01:38):

Yes. Lyle Landy esque figure is now living on an island from the Memphis monorail Boondoggle and Mud Island is closed now. The monorail doesn’t do anything. No,

Laci (02:01:49):

I

Matt (02:01:49):

Checked the Memphis newspaper’s website.

Laci (02:01:52):

That’s what we’re going to go do.

Matt (02:01:53):

Just like that pyramid in Memphis. It’s like if we’re going to have sporting games here in the pyramid, and instead it’s a Bass Pro shops. Oh fuck. So we see at the airport, Paul Sino and Joe Vill arrive, and some cops are like Big Pussy welcome gentlemen. You don’t look suspicious. Joe Vill is not big pussy. He is a jelly from the

Laci (02:02:15):

God jelly

Matt (02:02:16):

From the Analyze movies.

Laci (02:02:18):

Yes.

Matt (02:02:19):

Just how many more people could be in

Laci (02:02:20):

This movie? I don’t know. And they all have first and last names.

Matt (02:02:23):

I know Mitch gets spotted by Tobin. Bell starts chasing him now. I think the score is getting cool in horror score as jigsaw chases him. I like that when Tom Cruise sees Dean Northey immediately kicks him in his bad leg and there’s just the chase is on. This is really shot. So well edited, very well, very thrilling. Nobody better at running through space than Tom Cruise being pursued by Tobin Bell and Wilfred Brimley, and I love that. Wilfred Brimley, who’s behind. Everybody just wobbling along like a walrus, sees a figure through a door and just shoots at it. And it turns out it’s Tobin Bell, his friend, he had a

Matt (02:03:02):

His hand. He’s just like, well, yeah, Mitch Mcne, come on down now. And to cruise drops from the ceiling and hits him with his briefcase and then just kicks the shit out of him. Gets the

Laci (02:03:11):

Fuck out of him with that briefcase.

Matt (02:03:13):

And as he does, he’s like, you six son of a

Laci (02:03:16):

Poison effective,

Matt (02:03:17):

And wolf just rolls over dead from kicks.

Laci (02:03:21):

Don’t kick me. I just had the buffet. I just sha.

Matt (02:03:27):

So then my favorite scene of the movie, the two mobsters are in their hotel room. And Paul Sino is like, oh, if I get my hands on that, Mitch Mcne. And then his assistant comes in and he’s like, there’s a Mitch McNear here to see you, sir.

Laci (02:03:37):

I got my hands on him.

Matt (02:03:38):

That is another, this movie has 10 of my favorite things in movies. You’ll never find him. How do we find him? You won’t. Oh, he’s here. Okay,

Laci (02:03:45):

He’s where you last left him.

Matt (02:03:47):

Mitch looks like shit. His voice sounds like shit. He’s all beat to hell. He hasn’t slept in nine days. And he’s like, hello.

Laci (02:03:55):

I am embarrassed to tell you something that the firm has been doing.

Matt (02:03:58):

It’s very awkward. I’m afraid my client has behaved in an unethical manner, engaged in a conspiracy. We’ve been overbilling our clients.

Matt (02:04:07):

And I wanted to report this criminal behavior, but I can’t do it. I can’t submit my client’s invoices as evidence without their written authorization. And Joe Elli is like, that’s it. That’s what you’ve been talking to the FBI about. He’s like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. And by the way, he does not waive your rights to complete confidentiality. I’m your lawyer. I can’t talk to the government about you, but you stole the files. Oh no, the files haven’t been stolen. They’re exactly where they’ve been, where they’ve always been. I just needed to get a sense of all your activities and holdings. So I’ve prepared copies that way you and I can communicate properly. I get everything right down to the penny pound, Frank and Deutschemark as I should as your attorney, right? Wherever I go, the whole point is like, alright, so I’ve made copies. I’m not telling you who has access to the copies, but as long as I live, the secret is safe. You can’t kill me. If you kill me, your shit will be let out. But just keep me alive. I’m not going after you. This has nothing to do with you. I just want to fuck over my firm. And they’re like, okay, then we’ll sign the form. And they do. And that’s that great. I love it.

Laci (02:05:14):

They’re going to have to find new representation.

Matt (02:05:16):

They will. Which Ed Harrison, the next scene is like, there’s a thousand other Bandini Li and Lux and Tom Cruise is like, then we go after them one by one. Who’s we? Are you in this? Now this going to be a specialty. But then he also says the opposite, which is like it’s way harder to find the law firm than it is to find the, you kill a mobster and a million more mobsters spring up. This is a specialized sort of operation that we’re breaking up

Laci (02:05:41):

Here. I mean, it is. They have decades of even killing the people that they bring in just to protect the shit they do for the mafia.

Matt (02:05:50):

But the journey he’s been on is he says to Ed Harris, just because they don’t carry guns or whatever, you don’t think of them as criminals. But his journey through this movie is, I’ve rediscovered the law. I love the law so much. And these bastards at Bardini Lambert and luck have perverted the law. They’re way worse than the mafiosos. And you need to get that through your thick skull. Ed Harris. They’re way worse than the mobsters. You’re just indoctrinated in the FBI thinking you’re going after the mob. No, go after the lawyers. And if you go after the lawyers, the only thing the mob can do, the only way they’ll be able to launder money is in a washing machine. And Ed Harris is like, yeah, I guess your bug. So yeah, this is his whole, you can get, everybody at the firm have basically, you can build a racketeering case because every instance of them sending out a bill was an overbilled bill, was mail fraud. They’ll all be in prison for the rest of their lives. Anyway, Harris is like, how’d you ever come up with that mail fraud? And he’s like, I learned about it while I was studying for the bar. The firm made me do it again. This is way different from the book. In the book. He and Abby flee to the Cayman Islands forever. He won’t be a lawyer again, but this is,

Laci (02:07:02):

Wait, why would you go to the Cayman Island, therefore

Matt (02:07:04):

Keep going to an island or something.

Laci (02:07:06):

Oh, alright.

Matt (02:07:06):

Lots of John Grisham books end with the main character fleeing to the Caribbean. He just likes the Caribbean.

Laci (02:07:11):

Keith just needs more vacations.

Matt (02:07:13):

But this is his way of, I got my life back and I keep my law license and I’m going to be a good lawyer now. I care about the goddamn law. And as we’ve seen in America today, nothing is better or more sacred than the law. Abby comes home and they reconcile and she’s like, by the way, gene Hackman pretty decent guy in the end, but I really like this. She says, Avery was decent and corrupt and ruined and so unhappy. And it could have happened to you. You were on your way.

Laci (02:07:40):

Yeah.

Matt (02:07:40):

Yeah.

Laci (02:07:41):

Well said.

Matt (02:07:42):

Good stuff. That’s the firm.

Laci (02:07:43):

Good stuff. Good writing on there. Good delivery. Even

Matt (02:08:09):

Did she give it a star writing? So I like this movie a lot. It is probably the best. John Grisham adaptation. I think the Pelican Brief is also really good. Everybody check that one out as well. That one’s probably better directed. This is a better scripted and cast. I think I give it a three and a half and I’m not going higher because I think that score is a big problem. I think it’s way too long. In some ways it hits the most basic beats. I think I just want a little more commentary on the firm and what they’re doing in sort of corporate, the rot of amoral corporate values, I guess, and want more Gene Hackman,

Laci (02:08:51):

Right? Well, I was having a four in my head, but I think you’re right that it does have some cheat codes here. I’m always going to like a heist and a setup and the whole thing or whatever, but it’s easy to keep that for me and then kind of dazzle me with that sort of unfolding of events. So 3.5 because of all the great acting and the great writing and I can’t think of anything. It feels like, I want to say three movies in one, but it’s not. It’s the same movie, but enough for three. And it’s all woven together.

Matt (02:09:32):

It is.

Laci (02:09:34):

There’s a plot B plot. You feel all of them.

Matt (02:09:36):

I think of Sidney Pollock as a director who’s the perfect middle brow director. He’s very, very good at delivering a,

Laci (02:09:45):

He’s a Stouffer’s. Yeah, it’s a microwave meal, but it’s the best fucking one of all of

Matt (02:09:50):

Them. He’s the best version of that. He will probably not elevate it above

Laci (02:09:54):

That. It’ll fill you up. It will not gross you out. But

Matt (02:09:57):

He give you the best version of, and a very satisfying, fun ass version of that. And again, if they made this movie exactly the same way today, it would win all the Oscars. Everybody would be like, oh my God, this is all we want. Because Anatomy of a Fall comes out and is just a legal thriller, but we’re like, oh my God.

Laci (02:10:14):

Yes.

Matt (02:10:14):

It’s like an art film.

Laci (02:10:15):

Take us to the court. All right, what’s next? Heartbreakers one of my movies. I totally never thought of as a Gene Hackman movie, but now I will.

Matt (02:10:26):

He’s right there on the poster.

Laci (02:10:27):

I mean, I didn’t mean I didn’t know he was in it, just not who I think

Matt (02:10:30):

About. Sigourney Weaver another top.

Laci (02:10:32):

He’s gross in this movie

Matt (02:10:34):

All time actor for me. Jennifer Love Hewitt. Fine with her. Good. So that will be March 28th, our episode about Heartbreakers. We have the Royal Tenin bombs coming out at some point before the end of March. Also, our episode on Black Mirror episode Nosedive will be out on our patreon patreon.com/ load-bearing beams to get those two episodes. Lumen is listening as our severance recap show. The finality of that season will be coming out the day you’re hearing this. But tell a friend about load-bearing beams, won’t you? We work

Laci (02:11:08):

Really hard.

Matt (02:11:08):

Subscribe on YouTube. Follow me on letterbox at Matt Steps.

Laci (02:11:12):

I give us up for review, please. The reviews are, they’re literally a big deal. And if you listen this far, you’re the kind of person we want to review from.

Matt (02:11:21):

It’s true. We haven’t gotten a one in a while.

Laci (02:11:24):

Please, because we directly have to ask for them.

Matt (02:11:27):

It would never occur to me to review something, but

Laci (02:11:29):

No. Right. You have to do it on the wedding day of a mafioso to get it.

Matt (02:11:33):

Laci’s on Letterboxd at LoadBearingLaci. See what? She doesn’t give movies.

Laci (02:11:37):

I sometimes give it.

Matt (02:11:38):

My band is Rural Route nine. You can listen to our music on Spotify.

Laci (02:11:43):

You can literally listen to it on Spotify and

Matt (02:11:46):

We will be heading into the studio soon to record our summer mini series theme and maybe some other stuff. I don’t know what.

Laci (02:11:53):

Okay.

Matt (02:11:53):

You never know.

Laci (02:11:54):

I love you. Goodbye.